ETA 1-1-2012:
According to an August 27, 1993 news article in the British newspaper, The Independent, then eleven-year-old Brett Barnes said the following during the Anthony Pellicano-orchestrated media blitz put together to 'defend' Michael Jackson after the leakage of his being investigated for the abuse of Jordie Chandler:
Matters appeared to worsen for Jackson yesterday when an 11-year-old boy appeared on NBC television in California and admitted sharing a bed with him. Brett Barnes, an Australian from Melbourne, said Jackson had kissed him 'like you kiss your mother', but insisted nothing untoward had occurred.
The boy, who was interviewed with his mother and sister, met Jackson 18 months ago and recently accompanied him on a visit to London.
He described how he was questioned by detectives, who have confirmed that they are conducting a criminal investigation into the entertainer. 'They were asking questions like, 'Do you sleep in the same bed? Do you think he buys the toys to make you not tell things?'
'But it's not true,' the boy continued. 'He didn't do anything like that. He didn't touch people in a different way than he should . . . He kisses? Yeah, like you kiss your mother. We slept in the same bed? Yes, I was on one side of the bed and he was on the other. It's not unusual for him to hug, kiss and nuzzle up to you? Yeah, just the fun stuff.'Brett's media appearance--ten-year-old Wade Robson also made a statement--coincided with the accidental broadcasting of Jackson's propensity to share his bed with young boys. To note, no one in the media knew of Jackson's sleepovers until Brett mentioned them on national television.
Stranger still is that a key Jackson player, Pellicano, thought it would be advantageous to 'refute' Jordie Chandler's allegations of having been sexually abused by bringing out unrelated young boys who merely corroborated the fact of 35-year-old Jackson's inexplicably 'touchy-feely' behavior with his 'special friends'.
It is not hard to imagine that, in accordance to the evidence in this entry, that the 'nuzzling', kissing, and hugging in bed that Brett experienced with Jackson led to the boy's own sexual abuse.
ETA May 23, 2011:
As already known, during the discussion of Michael Jackson's pedophilia issues, only his detractors and accusers are examined and/or raked through the proverbial coals. Michael Jackson's actions, behaviors, decisions, and/or rationales are never looked into. It is like the debate is in a court-of-law where he is given a presumption of innocence, though we are not in a courtroom. Even though this way of framing the debate is neither logical nor accurate and very convenient for Michael Jackson fans, it is currently the way it is.
As such, this is an additional note about the people on the train, an additional boost to their already solid credibility.
According to a story published in the March 7, 1992 Sunday edition of The Gazette newspaper, via The Washington Post, Michael Jackson was in attendance of an award event in Washington DC on Thursday, March 5, 1992. If we take note of the couple on the train's statement taken by police, the woman stated she had heard "questionable noises" between Michael Jackson and a darker-skinned male juvenile on Saturday, March 7, 1992. This train was leaving from Chicago, Illinois, eventually continuing on to California.
Because of the closeness in dates, some may question the legitimacy of their statement to police. But this is faulty.
Washington DC is about 12 hours away from Chicago. If Michael Jackson left following the event, or even the next day, Friday, he would have more than an ample amount of time to catch a train with 'cousin' Brett Barnes, his staff, and buy up a total of four compartments departing from Chicago.
After all, this is exactly the type of thing celebrities do, either while on tour or jet-setting for both publicity functions or simply for pleasure.
Like Jolie Levine, these witnesses to Michael Jackson's pedophilic behaviors are unimpeachable. Unfortunately, if they did not know Brett's identity, their statement was essentially dead on arrival.
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This will merely build upon that earlier entry, as we wade through the fruit of additional research and evidence.
At the first whiff of my claiming Brett was a victim of Michael's, my detractors will, of course, point out that Brett Christopher Barnes articulated a defense for Michael Jackson, denying that any sexual molestation by Michael against his person had ever occurred. He did this on not one, but two occasions, the second of which was delivered under penalty of perjury from the witness box during Michael Jackson's child molestation and conspiracy case in 2005.
So much did Brett Barnes care about Michael, they contend, that he went so far as to quit his job as a casino roulette dealer just to 'be there' for his friend.
I agree that Brett Barnes' display of altruism was, indeed, an expression of the love he had for Michael. But one question obviously rises from his actions: what kind of 'love' was it really? The fans will, naturally, claim that it was platonic, even familial or brotherly, but I doubt this explanation.
Brett Christopher Barnes was in love with Michael Jackson.
That 'altruism' was sacrificial in nature—of course, not that abandoning his post as 'casino roulette dealer' for Michael Jackson's well-being was akin to dropping out of a university but the sentiment was the same. His selflessness can only be adequately explained in that it was based upon intense romantic feelings for Michael Jackson, ones undoubtedly fostered by a decade of sexual contact.
I imagine this declaration of mine seems salacious, maybe even slanderous. I disagree. All one must do is look at the breadth of evidence in support of it.
In late 2009 following Michael Jackson's predictable death, the United States FBI, under FOIA, released a fraction of the documents the Bureau had pertaining to Michael and his 'woes'.
In late 2009 following Michael Jackson's predictable death, the United States FBI, under FOIA, released a fraction of the documents the Bureau had pertaining to Michael and his 'woes'.
Like many Jackson skeptics, I have repeatedly been instructed by the fans to read these documents, which they erroneously believe prove Michael Jackson was innocent. Like any good researcher, I have read them. It should be noted that these documents were so heavily redacted that they were mostly indecipherable insofar as it would be haphazard to simply guess about whom the document discussed in some cases.
One document was not unreadable.
A lone witness statement given to the Juvenile Division on August 24, 1993 was included in this file of FBI documents, and it raises more than an eyebrow.
Recorded at 1:30 PM via telephone, the officer notes:
P/R called from Toronto Canada. She & husband works (sic) in Children's Services.
On Sat 3-7-92 they took train from Chicago to Grand Canyon. Train continued to CA (California). They had a compartment on car that Jackson had four compartments.
Jackson had a M/B juv (male black juvenile) 12/13 with him along with adult staff. Boy ID'd as Michael's "cousin". Jackson was very possessive of boy at night. P/R heard questionable noises through wall.
She was concerned enough to notify the conductor of her suspicions."Questionable noises" at night with a boy to whom Michael referred as his "cousin"?
This statement often gets lost in the fray when Michael's fans discuss these so-called 'exonerating' FBI files. This woman found the 'noises' Michael made with this boy with whom he was so 'touchy-feely' so disconcerting that she felt compelled, as any good social worker would, to alert someone in authority.
Understandably, one may ask, "how do we know what kind of noises this woman heard?" It is worth remembering that she worked in Children's Services. That she saw an adult male and a young boy; that the adult male was possessive of this young boy; and that she heard disturbing noises coming from a compartment only occupied by this adult male and his young boy companion can only mean a few things to a social worker who deals with child welfare:
- She overheard verbal abuse;
- She overheard physical abuse; or
- She overheard sexual abuse.
It is then significant that she reported this incident to the FBI only when Michael Jackson had been accused of sexually molesting a young boy. The probability of the 'noises' being anything but sexual is very low.
This document at the very least verifies in black-and-white that someone besides the so-called 'Neverland Five' of ill-repute, or anyone else labeled 'disgruntled staff', witnessed Michael Jackson's strangely affectionate behavior with young boys. The statement of this witness is unimpeachable, as unimpeachable as Jolie Levine's statements about Michael Jackson being a veritable 'chicken hawk'.
I must repeat this: if the biggest criteria for believability with regard to a Jackson detractor is not selling a story to the tabloids and/or going to the police, this Canadian couple absolutely passes that smell test! Not only did she originally alert the conductor but she also notified authorities of what she'd seen when Michael's child abuse scandal broke out into the media.
Another boost to her credibility, it should be noted, is that she asserted this boy had been called 'cousin' by Michael Jackson. I must admit I had not been a Jackson follower for years and years but I did not know it was public information that Michael Jackson referred to his boys as 'cousins', at least until well after the scandal broke in the media. This report was at the dawn of the 1993 molestation circus, when there was little information about Michael and his 'special friends'.
What this woman had witnessed on the train is clearly tangential to what Michael was being accused of doing to Jordie Chandler: she believed she was, without a doubt, a spectator to child sexual abuse that evening on the train, and the 'noises' the couple heard were sexual in nature.
But who was the boy making 'music' with Michael Jackson?
In March 1992, the only boy fitting the description of a 'male black juvenile', aged '12/13', and called 'cousin' would be Brett Christopher Barnes, a Michael Jackson 'special friend'. Throughout 1992, Brett accompanied Michael Jackson on his Dangerous Tour, as well as on his trip to Africa (according to Bob Jones, the staff was ordered to 'conceal' Brett Barnes from the news media documenting this trip).
According to the photo credits in Christopher Andersen's Michael Jackson: Unauthorized, the following picture of Brett and Michael is dated to March 1992 as they arrived in London:
The caption in Andersen's book reads: Michael arrived in London in March 1992 with ten-year-old Brett Barnes, one of the special friends he introduced as his "cousin".
This is also verified by a British news report; notice that the reporter refers to Brett as a "nine-year-old cousin":
To me, it is important to establish Brett's identity in relation to these unintentionally conspicuous, vocalized sexual crescendos. It's part of the good proof that Michael Jackson and Brett Barnes engaged in sex.
If that sounds crude, the evidence supporting this only gets more graphic!
It should be noted that in my last entry on Brett Barnes (where I begged the question as to whether he, too, had been a victim of Michael's obvious sexual proclivities for pubescent boys), a lot of my reasonable suspicion was based upon Jordie Chandler's evaluation with noted false sexual abuse claims expert, the late psychiatrist Dr. Richard Gardner.
It was in that interview that he repeatedly brought Brett into the equation, mentioning how Michael Jackson would frequently use Brett Barnes' alleged sexual adventurousness, for lack of a better term, as a gauge of how open-minded Jordie was.
Because I believe Jordie Chandler (as the eight-figure payout also supports his claims), I believe what he'd stated about Brett Barnes to Dr. Gardner. Although it can be argued that perhaps Michael Jackson could have lied about Brett just to get Jordie to go along with his sexual 'games', I doubt this, again, based on the evidence available and use of common sense.
The Jordie Chandler scandal helpfully revealed many of Michael Jackson's sexual explorations with Brett. This also included an interesting mention in a drawn description about how Michael Jackson explained that Brett Barnes masturbated differently because he was uncircumcised; from the picture:
"Brett -- not circumcised. Brett masturbates by twisting skin different way. Brett pulled head out & say look, look but not all way because it hurts."But one 'exploration' that deserves special mention is one I will refer to as the 'Vaseline story'.
A few months back, when I had first decided to write a follow-up to my original Brett Barnes entry, I was fixated on several sentences recorded in the famed chronology of the 1993 scandal created by Evan and Jordie Chandler for their attorneys. Evan included this strange anecdote as a 'note'.
As you can read in that chronology snapshot (taken from Victor Gutierrez's Michael Jackson Was My Lover, who scanned the actual document for the world to see), Michael Jackson told Jordie Chandler (and Jordie related it to his father) that he would bend Brett Barnes over and apply Vaseline to his anus because Brett's feces tore him, causing bleeding. It is only when Jordie asked Michael why Brett bled, Michael claimed it was because he 'ate too much', the result of that being feces so large only a lubricant applied by a 'friend' could soothe Brett's bathroom battle.
It is noteworthy to mention that my detractors will, no doubt, question the veracity of this Vaseline story because it is of Chandler origin. They will cite that the believability of it is predicated upon whether or not one believes the Jordie Chandler allegations, and if you disbelieve the allegations, how solid, then, is this Brett/Michael Vaseline tale?
This is a legitimate question.
Naturally, if one does not believe Michael Jackson was guilty of molesting Jordie Chandler--that the whole thing was a 'farce', a 'set up' so the Chandler adults could usurp money from Michael, or a 'big lie', as Michael would say--you'd also be more likely to disbelieve anything written by Evan Chandler, especially if the implication was Michael Jackson had been in a sexually ambiguous situation with yet another young boy.
It bears repeating that I believe the Chandler allegations because enough evidence exists to support them, mainly a very handsome multimillion dollar settlement amount which shortly followed Michael's 'humiliating' December 1993 body search and occurred right before he was scheduled to give a court-sworn deposition.
To me, the timing is more than suspicious!
If Evan Chandler was only 'making up' a story to bolster the allegedly fallacious claims of his son's abuse, a question to the detractors must also be asked: if the ultimate goal for the Chandlers was to make money off of Michael Jackson and, again, every detail of the Jordie Chandler allegations was essentially vicious fiction, why risk a proverbial payday by introducing Brett Barnes, an uninvolved party with the power to deny what was written in the chronology?
That would amount to an incredible risk, would it not? (Of course, there would be no risk if what they said about Brett Barnes was true, or Jordie Chandler was only repeating verbatim what Michael Jackson had told him.)
The introduction of Brett Barnes would present an uncontrollable variable. If the whole Jordie Chandler scandal had been predicated upon a 'big lie', alleging that Brett Barnes was also a victim if he was not would be a detriment to the Chandlers' reason for propagating the 'lie' in the first place, which was getting a settlement for their claims.
We should remember that Evan Chandler mentioned many boys in his chronology, and Jordie Chandler mentioned all of the known 'special friends' while being evaluated by Dr. Richard Gardner. They obviously had no qualms about bringing up other boys.
To me, it just does not make sense to implicate other people if your story is a fallacious extortion plot. It would be too much of a risk. And since it goes against all notions of logic and street smarts, I am unlikely to believe the constant mentioning of Brett Barnes by Jordie Chandler was just some fabrication dreamed up by the Chandler adults.
I should mention that even though Jordie implicated other boys--all of whom denied being molested (of course)--he only suggested, such as in the case of Wade Robson, that they merely masturbated in front of Michael; Brett, on the other hand, was at the same, or greater, sexual level as Jordie himself.
So what was really meant by this Vaseline story?
It was this note in the chronology, written as a seeming afterthought, that first pushed me to re-examine this whole Brett Barnes issue. If we take what was written at face value, Michael Jackson lending a 'helping hand', or, rather, a few agile fingertips brandishing a dollop of Vaseline, in order to soothe Brett Barnes' bathroom woes could be mostly innocent, even if inappropriate. Michael, after all, was a self-proclaimed 'lover of children' (not all children, of course) and seeing Brett suffer from painful constipation would, undoubtedly, cause Michael to feel pain.
Although it could be somewhat of a stretch, according to his testimony on the stand, Brett did recall a favorite Neverland pastime of his that could give credence to what Jordie told his father and what Evan went on to write in their chronology of the scandal:
If Brett specifically remembered his eating of 'good food', it is safe to say he may have had a big appetite, as suggested by Michael to Jordie, and, thus, this big appetite led to the constipation Michael Jackson was trying to 'relieve' with these Vaseline exercises. But the seeming correlation of Brett being a healthy eater does not waive the suspicions dredged up by this story as a whole.20 Q. And what do you recall doing at Neverland21 during the times you stayed there?22 A. Playing arcade games. Going23 ATV/motorbike-riding around the property. Going on24 amusement park rides. And watching plenty of25 movies, plenty of cartoons. Eating very good food.
It should be reiterated that in spite of its seeming altruism, Nurse Michael taking it upon himself to apply Vaseline to the anus of an unrelated young boy was out of line. His lack of understanding of societal boundaries when it comes to adult-child interaction is legend, as his constant need for sleepovers with other people's sons has helpfully demonstrated.
However, it is difficult for me to imagine that Michael Jackson--one of the biggest celebrities in the world with a fleet of staff--was unable to locate someone else to assist Brett Barnes in his malady. Surely Michael Jackson did not have to resort to dispensing medical care!
Was it impossible to get a staff member to travel down to a local drugstore to get some kind of stool softener for Brett? By the way Jordie related it to his father, this practice seemed commonplace; was it then impossible to alert Brett's mother that her son's Neverland diet--most likely fizzy drinks, candy, and junk food--was disaffecting his gut so much so that he had a constant war on the toilet? With Mrs. Barnes informed of her son's condition, she could have prescribed that Brett watch his diet or use laxatives while he was away at Neverland.
There seems to exist numerous other alternatives for Michael Jackson to have taken over placing himself in the very sexually ambiguous situation of shellacking Brett Barnes' inner folds with Vaseline!
I believe there is more to this Vaseline story than meets the eye, that it was more than Michael Jackson innocently playing 'Nurse' to this 'special friend'.
I should note that I am not suggesting that what was presented straight away in the chronology is not true; I am suggesting, given Mrs. Barnes' lack of involvement in this Vaseline task, that the purpose of the activity was only on the surface medical.
Is it inconceivable, given the ridiculousness of Michael's explanation to Jordie about why this was done (Brett "eats too much") and the fact he told another 'special friend' at all, that Michael Jackson, knowing the peculiarity of the Vaseline task, was trying to tell Jordie something else as inconspicuously as possible?
It is my view that a boy of Brett Barnes' age could accommodate his own wastes, so much so he needn't involve someone besides his mother, if necessary. Thus, I find Michael's inclusion obtrusive and unnecessary, which is why the question as to whether or not he simply enjoyed the activity should be considered. The very fact his mother was not involved in the Vaseline task, though Michael was, not to mention Michael had told Jordie about he and Brett's 'ritual', makes me feel that this was something that needed to be done when Brett was around Michael, that is, it was only done when Brett and Michael Jackson were together.
But if we do take what was written in the chronology at face value, could it be that Brett Barnes' anus had been traumatized, so much so he could not use the bathroom without the aid of a lubricant (his 'big shits' exacerbating the problem)?
Recall the description* given to the Chandler attorneys.
At the close is the suggestion to get a 'med exam' for Brett Barnes.
But why such a suggestion if the task was so 'mundane', given Michael's seemingly straightforward explanation that he was only helping Brett Barnes because the boy 'ate too much'? (It's noteworthy to mention that suggesting to get a 'med exam' of another boy would be a very bold and brazen move on the part of someone whose extortion plot was predicated upon a 'big lie'.)
We must remember several things.
In Jordie Chandler's evaluation with Dr. Richard Gardner, Jordie mentioned that Michael would often bring up Brett--a boy of similar age and looks, as we will soon see--as a way of getting Jordie to participate in sexual activity when Jordie felt apprehensive, as well as guilting Jordie into this activity (Note: 'Tommy Jones' is Brett Barnes):
DR. RICHARD GARDNER: "So he spoke about his cousin. And what did he say about Tommy Jones?"
JORDIE CHANDLER: "He said that, um, like, if he wanted me to do something with him, he would say that Tommy did that with him, so that I would do it. And, like, if I didn't do it, then I didn't love him as much as Tommy did." [Jordie makes a heavy sigh.]He then added later on in the evaluation:
JC: "Right. But somewhere on the trip I said, 'I didn't like when you put your tongue in my ear and grabbed my butt.' Once again, he started crying and making me feel guilty, and saying there's nothing wrong with it, and referring to the levitators and Tommy. I think he referred to Tommy and said Tommy wouldn’t care if I did that to him."We must also note that Evan Chandler mentioned in the chronology that during a conversation he'd had with Michael Jackson, he asked Michael quite pointedly if he was engaging in homosexual intercourse with his son.
Although anal sex was never alleged by the Chandler family, note Michael's conspicuous avoidance of a direct answer. He did not deny that he engaged in anal sex, perhaps with young boys; he merely said he did not use the term 'fucking'.
In Evan Chandler's poorly edited telephone conversations with Dave Schwartz, Evan stated that he still did not know, even after his conversation with Michael as mentioned in the chronology, if Michael was having sex with Jordie:
Again, we must keep in mind that Michael Jackson's lack of an answer was an answer in itself. While he may not have been 'fucking Jordie up the ass', his lack of a denial could be seen as confirmation that he did have anal sex, and if the suspicion was that his primary 'sexual partners' were pubescent boys, could it be that the Vaseline story involving Brett Barnes means more than we realize?14 MR. CHANDLER: Dave, Jordy's -- I15 believe that Jordy's already irreparably harmed.16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.17 MR. CHANDLER: That's my true belief.18 MR. SCHWARTZ: I mean, do you think19 that he's fucking him?20 MR. CHANDLER: I don't know. I have no21 idea.
Can everyone see where I am going with this?
I believe that this Vaseline task, as mentioned in the chronology, was done for the purpose of relieving Brett Barnes' torn and traumatized anus when he would move his bowels. However, I also believe that there was a sexual component to this task. Coupled with Evan Chandler's questioning of Michael Jackson as to whether he and Jordie were having anal sex and the suggestion of getting a medical examination of Brett Barnes leads me to suspect the purpose of the Vaseline was because Michael Jackson was having anal sex with Brett and the reason for Brett needing Vaseline on his anus when he moved his bowels was due to his anus being traumatized from this penetration.
If this sounds incredible to you, I don't think it is.
Jordie Chandler stated Michael Jackson would often detail his 'encounters' with Brett, usually as a comparison between the two boys: if Jordie did not do something, Jordie did not 'love' Michael as much as Brett did, who was more 'open-minded'. It is reasonable to me that Michael would also, as inconspicuously as possible, allude to he and Brett's sexual relations: Michael tells Jordie that he applies Vaseline to Brett's anus because it bleeds when he 'doo doos'; Jordie is perplexed and asks why; Michael Jackson then comes up with a nonsensical reason, possibly as a way to not alarm a confused Jordie: Brett eats too much.
Since I believe the Vaseline story as mentioned in the chronology--specifically that Michael told Jordie about this activity--it is not an unreasonable question to ask, "Is it possible that Michael Jackson could have just 'innocently' applied Vaseline to Brett?"
It is absolutely possible. It was 'innocent' insofar that Brett Barnes was not an active sexual partner; but for Michael Jackson, it was undoubtedly sexual. One has to wonder why Brett Barnes would even tell his older, 'cooler' friend, the superstar, that he was constipated; one should also wonder why Michael Jackson would take it upon himself to grease the anus of a boy who was old enough to have done it himself.
I can only explain it as being sexual, especially when you take into account that the suggestion Brett Barnes should undergo a medical examination most likely means Evan knew there was enough trauma done to Brett's body and/or anus that it would be visible to a medical professional!
Although much maligned, one of the infamous 'Neverland Five' claimed to have been a witness, or, rather, an accomplice, to the Vaseline task.
I mentioned it very briefly in that last entry but Kassim Abdool, a former Neverland security guard, recalled bringing Vaseline to Michael Jackson sometime in 1993--the year was sketchy for him to remember--and noticing a boy in Michael's bedroom, as related in a prosecution motion regarding additional 1108 (prior bad acts) evidence and testimony.
It should be noted, as I have mentioned before, that the Prosecution team was unsuccessful in getting in this particular Abdool testimony before the 2005 jury. However, the corroboration between what Abdool claims to have seen--an erect Michael Jackson with a boy at the ready and in need of only a tub of Vaseline--and what was stated in the chronology is more than interesting, and more than coincidental.
In black and white, the Chandler chronology mentions the use of Vaseline by Michael with Brett Barnes. Kassim Abdool helpfully recalled that he brought the same product to an aroused Michael Jackson, which would also help to establish the sexual nature of this activity. The only question that remains is who really was this young boy. Abdool suggests that this boy was Jordie Chandler. If his memory is accurate, perhaps an erect Michael could have wanted the Vaseline for masturbation purposes with Jordie.
However, I am not sure it was really Jordie Chandler that Abdool claims to have seen.
We have to remember that Jordie and Brett were sometimes hard to tell apart, especially by members of the Jackson staff, who had little intimate contact with any one of the many fleets of young boys going in and out of Neverland.
Perhaps who the boy was lies in the eyewitness testimony of another former Neverland staff member, Ralph Chacon.
Under the 1108 evidence decision, Ralph Chacon, unlike Kassim Abdool, was permitted to relate his story to the jury during his April 7, 2005 testimony. It was the graphic account of how Michael Jackson, following a jacuzzi dip and showering off, went on to kiss the lips, nipples, and belly of this mystery 'special friend' before performing oral sex on the boy:
10 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Okay. So you went back.11 When you went back, where did you go to?12 A. I went back to the same area where the13 shower was located. There was a window, and I was14 able to see and they were no longer in the shower.15 Q. So you looked into the window?16 A. Yes, sir.17 Q. All right. And what did you see -- where18 did you see Mr. Jackson and the child at this point?19 A. I saw them standing in the nude in the20 middle area, and Jordie was on the right, and he was21 on the left side. Standing, facing each other.22 Q. Now, at the time that you saw that, what23 were the lighting conditions inside of the rest24 room?25 A. Oh, it was litted up, just that area there.26 Not where the shower’s at, but that area, it was --27 the lights were on.28 Q. Did you have any difficulty seeing in there?
Without a doubt, most Jackson fans will find fault with this testimony for the simple reason Ralph Chacon, like Kassim Abdool and the rest of the 'Neverland Five' troop, not only sold Michael Jackson-related stories to the tabloids but also lost a lawsuit against Michael Jackson. The group claimed they had been 'wrongfully terminated' following cooperation with the 1994 investigative grand juries, as well as having been harassed and threatened by the newly-hired OSS security staff. Regardless of the claims, the jury found him liable for stealing from Neverland and that they had all acted with 'malice and fraud' against Michael Jackson. The result was the 'Neverland Five' having to pay over a million dollars to Michael, which included his exorbitant legal fees**.1 A. Not at all, sir.2 Q. Now, from the point outside looking down3 inside, what did you see go on between the4 defendant, Mr. Jackson, and Jordan Chandler?5 A. I saw that Mr. Jackson was caressing the6 boy’s hair, he was kissing him on his head, and his7 face, his lips. He started kissing him on the8 shoulders and started going down to his nipples.9 Started sucking his nipples. Started going down to10 his penis and putting it in his mouth. And about11 that time I just -- I left.12 Q. Okay. You say you saw him go down and do13 what?14 A. He put the little boy’s penis in his mouth.
Because of this, I find that it is at least somewhat reasonable to view Chacon and his fellow 'Neverland Five' workers as suspicious.
After all, they went beyond the simple selling of stories (I think it is erroneous to believe someone is always lying if they sell stories to the tabloids) and had a judgement filed against them. It could even be suggested that following this judgement, perhaps these 'Neverland Five' workers wanted to get back at Michael Jackson by testifying against him in court in 2005.
According to his testimony, however, Ralph Chacon stated that he was subpoenaed to be in court for Michael Jackson's child molestation case and did not want to testify. The same went for his testimony in front of the grand jury in 1994.
Chacon also stated under oath that Michael Jackson's attorneys contacted and met with him prior to his grand jury testimony, hounding him about what he was going to say:5 Q. All right. Let’s go back just for a second.6 Mr. Chacon, were you subpoenaed to be here7 this morning?8 A. Yes, sir.9 Q. You’re under subpoena?10 A. Yes, sir.11 Q. Did you want to come testify?12 A. No, sir.13 Q. When you testified before the grand jury,14 were you under subpoena?15 A. Yes, sir.16 Q. Did you want to testify?17 A. No, sir.
Chacon continued:8 Q. At some time prior to appearing before the9 grand jury, pursuant to subpoena, were you contacted10 by attorneys representing Mr. Jackson?11 A. Yes, sir.12 Q. On how many occasions?13 A. I can remember two occasions that I was14 called to come before them.15 Q. And do you recall who those attorneys were?16 A. Mr. Steve Cochran, I believe, and I remember17 an Eric Mason. Mr. Sanger.18 Q. Do you recall where the first meeting19 occurred?20 A. It happened in Mr. Jackson’s outside office21 at Neverland.22 Q. And do you recall when the second meeting23 occurred?24 A. It happened in Santa Barbara at Mr. Sanger’s25 office.26 Q. And were both of these meetings prior to the27 time you were to appear before the grand jury, your28 subpoena date?1 A. Yes, sir.
Ralph Chacon also added that these attorneys offered him money:18 Q. Prior to your appearance before the grand19 jury, you told the ladies and gentlemen that you met20 with attorneys for Mr. Jackson; is that correct?21 A. Yes, sir.22 Q. And with regard to that conversation, did23 they want to know what you were going to say?24 A. They did.25 Q. And what did you tell them?26 A. I said that I got subpoenaed, and if I got27 subpoenaed, that I would just speak the truth, but I28 didn’t tell them what I knew, but they wanted to1 know.2 Q. They wanted to know, but you wouldn’t tell3 them?4 A. Yes, sir.5 Q. But you told them you were going to tell the6 grand jury the truth?7 A. Yes, sir.8 Q. And did you do that?9 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. After your conversations with Mr. Sanger and19 Steve Cochran about your grand jury appearance, were20 you offered a raise?21 A. Yes, sir, I was.22 Q. And it was before your testimony actually23 occurred before the grand jury, correct?24 A. Yes, sir.25 Q. So it was in between the time they found out26 you were going and the time that you actually27 appeared they offered you a raise?28 A. Yes, sir.
All of this may seem ancillary to the main point--that Ralph Chacon claimed to have been a witness to Michael Jackson fellating a 'special friend'--but it goes well towards his believability. Surely, there would be no point of attorneys 'harrassing' someone if everything that went on at Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch was perfectly innocent, not at all suspicious and never sexual.
One has to wonder, then, in light of the conduct of Michael Jackson's attorneys, what kind of 'Neverland behaviors' were potentially on display to the workers there, so much so that Jackson henchmen feared a lowly security guard may spill the beans without financial incentive not to!
But let's return to who Chacon actually saw.
As Chacon stated to the jury, he observed Michael Jackson head to the jacuzzi and then into the pool area showers with a young male visitor to Neverland, where he then witnessed Michael kiss and perform a sex act on this same boy. Again, according to Chacon's recollection, this young boy was Jordie Chandler.
But was it really?
Like Kassim Abdool, we have to realize that Chacon had given an account of an incident occurring twelve to thirteen years before the trial at which he testified; understandably, his memory may have been sketchy. He did not know who the boy was for sure and assumed the boy he saw with Michael Jackson was Jordie. On the stand, Ralph Chacon acknowledged the boys looked similar according to his estimation:
Again, is it possible that, like Kassim Abdool, Chacon saw Brett Barnes instead of Jordie?19 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Now, Mr. Chacon, are you20 familiar with a child by the name -- a young boy by21 the name of Brett Barnes?22 A. Yes, sir.23 Q. And have you seen Mr. Barnes before?24 A. Yes, sir.25 Q. Have you seen him at the ranch before?26 A. Yes, sir.27 Q. Have you seen him in the company of the28 defendant before?1 A. Yes, sir.2 Q. On how many occasions?3 A. Numerous occasions. I couldn’t give you a4 figure.5 Q. When Mr. Barnes was at the ranch, do you6 recall whether or not his parents were with him?7 A. At times they were; at other times they8 weren’t.9 Q. Now, with regard to the child you’ve10 described and identified as Jordan Chandler, and the11 child that you also saw as Brett Barnes, can you12 tell us what they look like?13 A. Well, to me, I always got them confused,14 because they looked the same, similar. I know one15 was a little bit shorter than the other. But, you16 know, I always got them confused, but they looked --17 they looked alike. Maybe one had hair a little bit18 shorter than the other.
The exact same incident to which Chacon testified at trial appeared in the Prosecution's "Prior Bad Acts" motion. In the motion, the description of the boy is given in further detail and helpfully reveals who the boy Michael orally copulated really was.
In her May 6, 2005 testimony, Lisbeth Barnes, Brett's mother, verified that her son wore his hair long:
Ralph Chacon may have inaccurately stated on the stand that this boy had been Jordie Chandler but by the description of this 'special friend', which was also verified by his mother, the boy was Brett.14 Q. How old do you believe Brett is in those15 photographs?16 A. About 12, I would say. Probably 12, 13.17 Probably 12, I’d say.18 Q. He had long hair that he wore at the time?19 A. Uh-huh.20 Q. Did he wear long hair for a number of years21 like that?22 A. He did. And then he had -- he had a haircut23 in 1993, and then he grew it again.
For me, I find Chacon's careful delineation quite significant.
If Chacon had stated he'd been a witness to any molestation of Michael Jackson's most notable victim, Jordie, I would have found him less credible. The reason for this is not because the molestation of Brett Barnes would fit my thesis that Michael had made victims of all or most of his 'special friends'; that is incidental. Chacon would have been less credible because it would be convenient to claim, especially as someone who had been seeking damages from Michael Jackson, he'd seen such a molestation of the victim who'd been paid a multimillion-dollar settlement.
Without any pretense, Chacon simply described the boy he saw, and it happened to be long-haired Brett Barnes. Significantly, he also described a boy who spent a lot of time at Neverland, many times without his parents. According to Brett's own testimony, he often went to Neverland by himself:
But we'll return to Chacon's eyewitness account a little later; what we know now is that Michael Jackson allegedly performed oral sex on Brett Barnes.21 Q. Did you ever go to Neverland without a22 parent going with you?23 A. Yes.24 Q. So sometimes you would fly all the way from25 Australia to Neverland, is that right, by yourself?26 A. Absolutely.
It is common knowledge that Michael Jackson's 'special friends' shared his bed and, apparently, the parents of these 'special friends' took no issue with their young sons being under the covers with a man in his thirties. Creepily, Brett Barnes' mother, Lisbeth, shed light on the history of her son's sleeping arrangements at Neverland.
According to Mrs. Barnes, her son began sleeping with Michael Jackson on the family's first trip to Neverland when he was just nine-years-old:
Continuing further along, Mrs. Barnes acknowledges her nine-year-old son, Brett, was sleeping in the bed with Michael Jackson before that first stay was over:11 BY MR. ZONEN:12 Q. Miss Barnes, good morning.13 A. Good morning.14 Q. Your child Brett was how old when he first15 met Michael Jackson?16 A. Nine.17 Q. And was that on the occasion of your first18 visit?19 A. Going on ten. Yes.20 Q. He was nine years old?21 A. He may have been ten.
27 Q. At what stage did your son begin to stay in
28 his room or with him in a hotel room, together?
1 A. I don’t remember.
2 Q. Well, the first time you’re telling us --
3 A. It’s not the first few nights. It could
4 be -- I’m not really sure exactly when.
5 Q. By about the third night?
6 A. Could be. It could be a little bit later.
7 Q. Fourth night?
8 A. I don’t remember.
9 Q. This is a trip that went about three weeks;
10 is that right?
11 A. That’s correct.
12 Q. The trip was paid for entirely by Mr.
13 Jackson?
14 A. That’s correct.
15 Q. And that included all of the transportation
16 for you, your husband and your two children from
17 Australia to California and back; is that right?
18 A. That’s correct.
19 Q. As well as all of your housing
20 accommodations, travel needs and entertainment; is
21 that right?
22 A. That’s correct.
23 Q. Did he purchase gifts for the four of you
24 while he was there?
25 A. Yes, he did.
26 Q. And by the fourth night, your son was
27 sleeping in his room; is that correct?
28 A. No, I didn’t say by the fourth night he was
1 sleeping in his room.
2 Q. What night was it, then?
3 A. I’m not sure what night it was.
4 Q. Was it within the first week?
5 A. It could have been. It may have been. It
6 may not have been. I don’t remember.
7 Q. But he was sleeping with your son in the
8 same bed before this trip was over; is that correct?
9 A. That’s correct.Notice how Assistant District Attorney Ron Zonen juxtaposes the luxury provided to the Barneses by Michael Jackson with how soon Brett began sleeping with him. Although to some it may seem as if it is a sleazy insinuation, it is relevant. Is it not possible that the Barnes parents had been somewhat blinded by Michael's hospitality so much so they thought it rude to brandish their concern?
It is possible.
In the testimony immediately following the previous exchange, Mrs. Barnes does assert, though, this sleeping in bed with Michael Jackson was not a constant thing and occurred if only by accident.
10 Q. All right. Was he sleeping in the same bed
11 with your son for an extended period of time?
12 A. On -- no, not -- not continuously, no. Just
13 on-and-off basis when they were -- the times when my
14 son would fall asleep when we were there, and he
15 stayed there and -- rather than having to go back
16 to -- outside into the unit.We can only speculate why Mrs. Barnes stammered in her answer; perhaps she fully knew that, while at Neverland, Brett stayed mainly in Michael Jackson's bedroom, not with his family in the guest units, but did not want to reveal this tidbit to the jury. However, Brett's sister, Karlee Barnes, was much more open about the truth in her testimony:
27 Q. BY MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Now, Miss Barnes, how
28 many nights have you spent at Neverland?
1 A. I don’t remember. It’s been that many that
2 I -- I simply can’t recall.
3 Q. Hundreds, maybe?
4 A. Well, I wouldn’t say hundreds. But
5 definitely more than 10, 20, 30 times, yes.
6 Q. More than a 100?
7 A. I don’t remember, but maybe.
8 Q. Okay. And of that 100 or so nights at
9 Neverland, you’ve spent only two nights in Mr.
10 Jackson’s room?
11 A. That I remember, yes.
12 Q. Okay. And of those 100 nights that you
13 spent at Neverland, how many nights was Mr. Jackson
14 there?
15 A. Probably about 80, 90 percent.
16 Q. Okay. And of that 100 nights, how many
17 nights was your brother there?
18 A. All the time.
19 Q. Okay. Every time that you were there?
20 A. Every time I was there, my brother was
21 there, yes.
22 Q. And of those hundred or so nights, 80
23 percent of the time your brother slept -- when Mr.
24 Jackson was there, your brother basically slept in
25 Mr. Jackson’s room virtually every one of those
26 nights, didn’t he?
27 A. Yes, because he wanted to.
28 Q. That’s a “yes” or “no” question.
1 A. Yes.The Barnes family maintained under oath that it was always "Brett's decision" to stay the night with Michael Jackson*** and that the family had no real issues with the arrangements. However, Mrs. Barnes stated that there were conversations had between she and her husband regarding Michael Jackson's penchant for boy sleepovers.
7 Did your husband ever express any concerns
8 to you about your son sleeping in the same bed with
9 Mr. Jackson?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Did you ever discuss it with him at all?
12 A. Yes. We talked -- well, we didn’t see
13 any -- any reason -- we talked about it. It wasn’t
14 a discussion, as such, that -- because I couldn’t
15 make a decision and say, “Well, yes, it’s okay,” and
16 not consult my husband, because he’s part of the
17 family. So....Mrs. Barnes stammers again with her answer but it is quite clear that allowing her young son to sleep in the same bed with a man in his thirties was not something a married mother could decide to allow without her husband's input. One must wonder, though, if she could answer affirmatively that her husband saw no harm in it, to what can we owe the stammering and the need to ask in the first place? The testimony continues:
18 Q. So at some point in time there was a
19 discussion that you had with your husband about your
20 son sleeping with Michael Jackson?
21 A. A conversation that we decided whether we
22 should -- whether it was okay, because we didn’t
23 want to impose on Mr. Jackson.
24 Q. Was this the sole issue that you were
25 dealing with was whether or not your son sleeping
26 with him was an imposition for Mr. Jackson? That
27 was the sole concern you had?
28 A. Yes.I find Mrs. Barnes incredible. If the main worry was that a nine- or ten-year-old boy was 'imposing' on a superstar, they could have easily told their son he was not allowed to do so. But this does not explain her seeming trepidation with regard to answering the questions about how many conversations were had about the topic and how often Brett slept in the same bed with Michael Jackson.
Continuing:
1 Q. How many conversations did you have with
2 your husband about the question of where your son
3 slept?
4 A. I don’t remember.
5 Q. More than ten?
6 A. No. I don’t remember.
7 Q. Do you remember at what age your child was
8 at the time of that discussion?
9 A. No. I don’t remember.
10 Q. He could have been ten?
11 A. I don’t remember. I’m sorry.
12 Q. Could have been 13?
13 A. I don’t remember.
14 Q. Do you know if he had already been sleeping
15 with Mr. Jackson for a period of three or four years
16 by the time you had this conversation with your
17 husband?
18 A. I don’t think so.
19 Q. Well --
20 A. I think it would have been before, before
21 that.
22 Q. Perhaps a year?
23 A. No. It would have been at the beginning, I
24 guess.
25 Q. So your son was closer to age ten, or
26 perhaps age ten at the time this happened?
27 A. That’s correct. Yes.So, we do know that, at least, in the beginning, before scruples were exchanged for luxury and the high-life, Mr. and Mrs. Barnes had been apprehensive about allowing their nine- or ten-year-old son to sleep in the bed with Michael Jackson, then a thirty-something-year-old man. Of course, Michael Jackson's fans will claim that Lisbeth Barnes was earnest in her answer that they were solely concerned about the impositions upon Michael, never that they felt understandably uneasy about the sleeping arrangements.
It is interesting to notice that Mrs. Barnes initially feigned a cloudy memory when asked how old Brett was when she and her husband had had these conversations about sleeping in Michael Jackson's bed and then finally agreed that her son was quite young, or too young to sleep with an unrelated adult male. Perhaps she knew how it sounded and how bad it made her look as a parent.
Now let's return to Ralph Chacon.
Chacon's eyewitness testimony--that he had seen Michael Jackson preform oral sex on Brett Barnes--was the catalyst for the Los Angeles and Santa Barbara district attorney's offices decision to make a trip to Melbourne, Australia in order to see if it was possible to question Brett Barnes as a part of their investigation. The trip occurred in June 1994, following the secretive yet enormous January settlement with the Chandler family; law enforcement was looking to bolster a quickly crumbling case.
According to a Prosecution motion regarding Lisbeth Barnes' anticipated testimony, Brett's mother intended to testify that District attorney Tom Sneddon had 'invented' the allegation that Michael Jackson orally copulated Brett Barnes as a way to strengthen his 2005 criminal case on the 1108 tangent.
But as stated in the motion, Mrs. Barnes knew of Ralph Chacon's allegation since Michael Jackson's first molestation scandal, and this was verified and attested to under penalty of perjury by two of those in attendance, Judge Lauren Weis-Birnstein and Deputy attorney William Hodgman.
Note the fourth picture in the set.
According to Hodgman, when the subject of Michael Jackson fellating Brett Barnes was broached, Mrs. Barnes did not protest the allegation, but merely withdrew, holding her head down, while Mr. Barnes became indignant with his wife. A few days later, the Barneses decided they would not allow Brett to cooperate with the investigation.
We can only speculate the reasoning behind Brett's parents' reactions, although it is reasonable to suspect, especially when coupled with these conversations Mrs. Barnes testified as having with her husband about the Neverland sleeping arrangements, that they, at the very least, could have expected molestation may occur or even had been occurring, perhaps under their noses, during these sleepovers. It is then when they are faced with the reality of Brett having been molested, they display the emotions of real parents.
Given Mr. Barnes' anger, perhaps he had not had knowledge of these Neverland sleepovers or that he had not directly approved them; he apparently seems to shift the onus of blame for Brett's molestation onto his wife.
One also has to wonder what moved the Barneses from possibly allowing Brett to cooperate with the investigation to disallowing him to do so.
We do know two things: Mrs. Barnes lied about District attorney Sneddon making up an allegation of oral sex between Brett and Michael Jackson, for she had known about the incident to which Ralph Chacon was witness to since 1994; additionally, they did not deny it, but felt gutted and, in Mr. Barnes' case, angry that it had happened.
The interesting thing about this 1994 meeting is that, according to testimony, Mrs. Barnes offered to testify in Michael Jackson's 2005 trial (Brett Barnes offered as well following his being contacted by Brian Oxman****) but had previously refused to cooperate in 1994 with regards to the alleged molestation of her own son. Perhaps she found it easier to cooperate in 2005 when Brett had not been a (recent) victim.
This lack of cooperation, of course, occurred after Brett Barnes had appeared on television vouching for Michael Jackson's character; rather, before there had been any allegation of sexual misconduct on Michael's part against Brett, the Barneses had no problem appearing in Anthony Pellicano's televised and well-orchestrated attempts to paint Jordie Chandler as the 'lone liar' among all of the other 'special friends'.
The question remains: why cooperate to defend Michael Jackson in 1993 but not cooperate with a simple questioning of Brett Barnes in 1994? If Brett was never a victim of molestation, as was contended in 1993 and then again in court in 2005, surely his parents would have felt it fine to allow him to be questioned in 1994. After all, no harm could have come to Brett if Michael was, as he stated in the video, like one's "father/brother/sister/mother" and that Brett felt as though he knew Michael in a "past life"!
The simplest explanation for this reticence on the part of the Barnes family is that they had something they wanted to hide from police, or something they chose to hide about Michael from the police; notice how two days elapsed following the meeting in Melbourne, Australia before they decided to not participate.
Maybe money exchanged hands.
Ralph Chacon's positive ID of Brett Barnes as having been the boy on whom Michael performed oral sex and the reactions of the Barnes parents after hearing of such allegations is an explosive indication that Brett was involved in sexual activity with Michael Jackson at some point in time. Naturally, it was expected, especially given the sheer amount of nights he spent in Michael's bed, a total of 365 days at one point according to sister, Karlee.
18 Now, when you went on tour with Mr. Jackson,
19 you spent how many nights on tour?
20 A. Well, as I said, it was about half the year
21 I was in Europe when I was in the seventh grade, and
22 about half of the year I was in South America in the
23 seventh -- in the eighth grade.
24 Q. How old was your brother at that time?
25 A. I was what, 13, 14. So he would have been
26 about 11 or 12.
27 Q. And virtually every night on that tour, Mr.
28 Jackson slept with your brother Brett?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. How many nights would that have been,
3 approximately?
4 A. Let’s see, let’s divide 365 days into half.
5 Q. Okay. Is that about it? About --
6 A. Well, if I said I spent half the year
7 overseas with him one year and half of the year
8 overseas with him the other year, I think that would
9 total about 365 days altogether.
10 Q. Okay. So 365 nights he spent the night
11 alone with your brother in his room?
12 A. Yes.We all know that Brett Barnes gave testimony on the stand that he slept with Michael Jackson in the same bed--even when other beds were available--until he was at least nineteen-years-old.
Given the timeline helpfully revealed by Lisbeth Barnes, Brett slept with Michael Jackson from age nine to age nineteen, a total of ten years! This is in stark contrast to the other boys, such as Wade Robson, who said he stopped sharing Michael Jackson's bed when he was thirteen- or fourteen-years-old. His May 5, 2005 testimony on the subject:
(To note: Wade Robson saying that he "didn't stop sleeping with" Michael does not mean he continued to sleep in the same bed, but that he was 'clarifying' the Prosecution's use of the term "sleeping with", which tends to denote sex.)23 Q. When did you stop sleeping with Mr. Jackson?24 A. I guess when I was about, I don’t know,25 maybe 13, 14, something like that.26 Q. Why did you stop?27 A. I didn’t stop sleeping with him. I just28 haven’t spent the night with him, I mean, in his1 room or anything like that since then, I don’t2 think.
And Brett's:
9 Q. So you stayed in the room with Michael
10 Jackson when you were 18 years old?
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. You’re 22 now?
13 A. 23. 23.
14 Q. So you were 19 years old?
15 A. Yeah, I guess.
16 Q. Did you share a bed with him at that time?
17 A. Yeah, I did.The colossal question is why would a nineteen-year-old man sleep in the same bed as a man in his forties? And why did Brett not simply 'grow out' of these Neverland sleepovers, like Wade and, doubtless, other 'special friends' did?
I find that the simplest explanation would be that Brett Barnes was in love with Michael Jackson. It would go well to explaining how a decade could pass and he still insisted on sleeping with him. According to Brett, had Michael Jackson not had children, he would have continued to sleep in the same bed with him.
What would be purely speculation about answering why he stopped sharing Michael Jackson's bed? If what Ralph Chacon saw--oral sex between Michael and Brett--is any indication of the types of goings-on between the two during their sleepovers, it is no surprise Brett wanted to continue to have them!12 Q. Do you still sleep with Michael Jackson?13 A. No, I don’t.14 Q. How old were you when you stopped sleeping15 with Michael Jackson?16 A. I couldn’t tell you that.17 Q. Why don’t you still sleep with Michael18 Jackson?19 A. Well, he’s got kids now.20 Q. And?21 A. And I -- it would be purely speculation if I22 told you. I could not answer that knowingly,23 like -- it’s just --
And these sexual games of course could not occur if any of his young children were in the room.
At the end of all of this Brett Barnes exploration, what do we have?
We have a couple who, in March 1992, heard strange sexual noises--and we know this because they reported it due to Michael Jackson's child molestation scandal--from Michael's train compartment, his only companion within the compartment being Brett Barnes. They then reported the strange sounds to the train's conductor and then, over a year later, to the police.
We have the eyewitness testimony of former security guard Ralph Chacon, who witnessed Michael Jackson performing fellatio on a long-haired young boy who spent lots of time at Neverland without his parents. Although Chacon stated incorrectly during the trial that the boy he had seen was Jordie Chandler (who did not have long, dark, and straight hair), his physical description of Brett Barnes enabled investigators to positively identify the boy, so much so they traveled to Australia to talk to the Barnes family.
We then have Jordie Chandler, the enigmatic accuser who became a multimillionaire, who told his father of a strange and inappropriate activity Michael shared about applying Vaseline to Brett's anus, allegedly as a way to assuage the boy's constipation because he would be torn and bleed if not for the soothing petroleum jelly. We can only speculate whether what was recorded in the chronology should be taken at face value or, rather, should we take notice of the fact that Michael could've been revealing the Vaseline activity to Jordie as a surreptitious 'introduction' into anal play, and more specifically, anal sex.
Evan Chandler apparently extrapolated the real meaning of the task and boldly suggested Brett should get a medical examination; he felt Brett could be demonstrative in establishing Michael Jackson's prolific molestation of boys.
Although we cannot be entirely certain who the boy was that Kassim Abdool saw when he allegedly fetched an aroused Michael Jackson a tub of Vaseline, if he, too, like Ralph Chacon, was confused by Jordie Chandler and Brett Barnes given their like features and coloring, it is possible we have an eyewitness to this Vaseline activity between Michael and Brett. It would be the simplest explanation when we couple Jordie's revelation that Michael Jackson used Vaseline to manipulate Brett's damaged anus.
Finally, we have Brett Barnes' own conduct: the sleepovers he insisted on having--as demonstrated by Lisbeth and Karlee Barnes--that went on for a decade, only ending because Michael Jackson had children. Michael Jackson claimed sleepovers with children--by extrapolation, this includes his 'special friends'--consisted of cookies, soft music, and warm milk before tucking them into bed; it is doubtful Michael Jackson had tucked a nineteen-year-old man into bed.
The only rational conclusion one could make for what went on during those sleepovers between two sexually-mature adult men in bed together is some kind of sexual relations.
When I asked last time "Was Brett Barnes a victim?", all I had was notes given to Chandler attorneys and Jordie's interview with Dr. Richard Gardner to substantiate my claims; I was merely establishing reasonable suspicion that Brett could have been sexually abused. Now, we have credible eyewitnesses who've added sex into the equation.
To me, none of this is terribly complicated, nor should it be. Michael Jackson and his besotted boy, Brett, were sex partners from the time Brett was nine until he was nineteen. There no longer can be any doubt the sexuality of their 'special friendship', given the powerful evidence in support of it.
_________________________________________________________________________________
* The drawn description that appears in Victor Gutierrez's book Michael Jackson Was My Lover is not the same description Jordie Chandler made for police in 1993, which was the subject of this Prosecution motion regarding whether Jordie's description of Michael Jackson's splotched penis given to Rosibel Ferrufino should be admissible. The drawn description in Gutierrez's book is the description dictated by Jordie Chandler to his father, Evan Chandler, and, as such, appears in Evan's handwriting. This was the description given to the Chandler attorneys.
** According to Diane Dimond's book Be Careful Who You Love in the chapter "The Neverland Five", she notes that one of the OSS guards named a defendant in the lawsuit brought by the 'Neverland Five', Jerome Johnson, gave a court-sworn declaration stating Michael Jackson's chief of security, Bill Bray, and Bettye Bailey, who worked with Bray, both stated they had lied to the 1994 investigating grand jury about Michael's molestation of young boys. From page 180 of the paperback edition:
Jerome Johnson said he called Bettye Bailey in Los Angeles so she could try to calm Bill Bray [following an altercation with one of the OSS guards]. The next thing he knew Michael Jackson was calling on the phone to speak to Bray. Jerome said he was standing in the doorway and was able to overhear Bray's part of the conversation.
"Mr. Bray was upset with Mr. Jackson, and he was telling Mr. Jackson how [he] had lied to the grand jury about Mr. Jackson's molesting boys to protect Mr. Jackson. After the conversation, Bill Bray told me directly that he had lied to the grand jury regarding Michael Jackson molesting little boys. Bettye Bailey also told me she knew that Mr. Jackson had been molesting little boys."While this declaration had been given by Jerome Johnson, he, unfortunately, was caught trying to extort $7 million from Michael Jackson and pled the Fifth amendment when put on stand, thus, not helping the 'Neverland Five's' case. It is worth noting that Johnson, who had worked for Michael Jackson for seven years, would have only been successful in extorting Michael had he had real insider dirt; extortion is only feasible when the extortioner has something over the extorted's head.
*** Carl Toms, the author of the controversial and highly informative analysis Michael Jackson's Dangerous Liaisons, noted with regard to Karlee Barnes' testimony of Brett's 'wanting' to sleep in the bed with Michael Jackson thusly, from page 491:
She insisted she had no reason to believe anything illegal happened, with that turn of phrase ["My brother wanted it,"] she might as well have said right out, "My brother wanted sex"--and it could be that is what she would have said, but for the fact she was there to get Michael out of trouble, not drop him in it. The fact that Brett "wanted it", whatever "it" was, found further evidence in the young man's own testimony (allowing for his "speculative" memory) that he was no less than nineteen on the final occasion when he shared Michael's bed--positively geriatric in terms of Michael's preferences. One feels by this time the star may have been charitably doing Brett a favour.One knows full well that Karlee did not mean "Brett wanted sex" but Toms accurately characterizes the most likely reason why Brett, in comparison to all other 'special friends', continued to sleep in the bed with Michael Jackson.
**** As an interesting tangent to Brian Oxman's contacting Brett Barnes to testify in court, according to Maureen Orth's July 2005 Vanity Fair article "CSI: Neverland", Oxman also offered Jordie Chandler money to not testify in Michael Jackson's 2005 trial:
Sneddon's biggest disappointment was that Chandler, now 26, refused to testify in the current case. For a year and a half Sneddon entreated him, but he also gave him his word that he would not subpoena him. Chandler was in fact pressured by both sides. I have learned that a prosecution witness told authorities that Brian Oxman, a member of the original defense team and a Jackson-family lawyer, had obtained Chandler's cell-phone number and placed repeated calls to him. In addition, Oxman reportedly told Chandler he could write his own check if he would refuse to testify. That information is in the hands of the law, which could investigate for obstruction of justice. (Oxman said he is prevented from commenting because of the gag order.)











151 comments:
Excellent post, Desiree! Once again you amaze with your research.
Brett Barnes was most definitely a victim. Outside of Jason Francia and Jordie Chandler, Brett Barnes is the next "duh". And sadly, I suspect that he continued to sleep with Mike because of the abuse, unlike the other special friends. Jordie did say that Mike would use Brett to get him to do stuff, so it's more than likely that Brett was experiencing the same level of abuse that Jordie did.
The FBI document about the Canadian social workers hearing "noises" always intrigued me. I read a fan saying "Oh maybe she heard Mike doing it with a woman", which basically acknowledges that it was sex sounds that the lady heard. But Mike had no women with him, only Brett, so is it not unlikely what they heard was abuse? Yes! I agree, this is impeachable because these individuals never ever sold their story. She probably wondered what was going on and finally put two and two together when the allegations broke. Just like James Hudnall did, remember?
I have to agree with you, there is no reason why a superstar would put vaseline on an unrelated boy if it wasn't sexual. Mike always claimed he was like a kid, so in essence he was these boys friend, not a father figure. Why would two friends help each other with constipation by rubbing vaseline on an anus? Doesn't make sense. And I suspect that Mike mentioned it to Jordie with the same goal in mind when he was mentioning and showing that diseased genital book to Corey Feldman: he wanted to get them "interested". Of course it's possible that he was making fun of Brett, but as you said, this activity seemed like it was something that occurred often. Also, why would anyone who was lying risk the big payout by saying Brett should get a medical exam? They must have thought Brett was being penetrated some how! You hit the nail on the head.
I can't believe Chacon saw Brett! That makes me believe him even more since saying it was Jordie would be more typical of someone making it up. He just decribed his hair, which was certainly a distinguishing feature. How much more evidence can one have, really? And the kiss of death to me is the fact that Lisbeth Barnes and her husband DID NOT EVEN ARGUE with Chacon's claim. Mr Barnes just got angry! It's like they probably always suspected that something could got wrong...and apparently it did. Brett said on the stand that he "wasn't happy" with all the things that people said about him, but never ever did he try to sue. Sounds more like sabre rattling than actual anger. Maybe he was jsut mad he was exposed. You make a good point about the Barneses eagerness to testify in 2005 and let Brett be on TV in 1993 but how they didn't want to take to authorities in 1994. I think they were scared. I agree, money exchanged hands for their silence.
"If Evan Chandler was only 'making up' a story to bolster the allegedly fallacious claims of his son's abuse, a question to the detractors must also be asked: if the ultimate goal for the Chandlers was to make money off of Michael Jackson and, again, every detail of the Jordie Chandler allegations was essentially vicious fiction, why risk a proverbial payday by introducing Brett Barnes, an uninvolved party with the power to deny what was written in the chronology?"
-Well, you can look at it both ways. If Jordan and Evan were telling the truth when they mentioned Brett as a victim, he would still come in and deny it, blowing the whole scheme. If they were not telling the truth and mentioned Brett as a victim, he would still come in and deny it, once again, blowing the whole scheme..So there's really no win or lose.
"In black and white, the Chandler chronology mentions the use of Vaseline by Michael with Brett Barnes. Kassim Abdool helpfully recalled that he brought the same product to an aroused Michael Jackson, which would also help to establish the sexual nature of this activity. The only question that remains is who really was this young boy. Abdool suggests that this boy was Jordie Chandler. If his memory is accurate, perhaps an erect Michael could have wanted the Vaseline for masturbation purposes with Jordie."
-I wouldn't exactly consider Kassim Abdool a credible source. He admitted on the witness stand that he was a former police officer, and you would think that someone with ties to law enforcement would actually do something if they really saw innocent children being harmed. He also admitted to bringing his own children to a employee event at neverland called "family fun day", and this was AFTER he and his security partner Ralph Chacon supposedly saw inappropriate acts, which totally killed his credibility. And speaking of Chacon, I remember watching an interview with Roger Friedman where he stated that Chacon was probably the most unbelieveable witness he's seen at the trial so far. He called his story "outrageous" and said that it sounded like a porn novel issued from the north american man/boy love association. And I agree with Friedman. Chacon's testimony sounds more like a love story than an actual witness account. Which means he obviously fabricated his story from reading none other than Victor Guiterezz's book "Michael Jackson was my lover: The secreat diary of Jordie Chandler".
QUOTE FROM VICTOR'S BOOK:
"Michael's kisses were so passionate. He would kiss Jordie with his hands all over his body"
QUOTE FROM CHACON'S TESTIMONY:
SNEDDON: Now you say you saw Mr. Jackson kissing the boy, correct?
CHACON: Yes sir
SNEDDON: And how would you describe the kissing?
CHACON: Well, it was very passionate. Very passionately he was kissing him
SNEDDON: And did you see his hands during the time he was kissing him?
CHACON: Yes sir
SNEDDON: Where were they?
CHACON: They were all over his body
LOL These "witnesses" were a complete joke. Looks like Sneddon had a thing for tabloids.
And as for the social worker on the train, are these the noises she was supposedly hearing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLzM6qykuTU
Steve/Pauline/Lucky_Charm, etc:
The sophistry employed by Jacko fans still leaves me in awe. Frankly, it is astounding! To the point:
It is quite simple: even Jacko's most ardent defenders have to admit how absolutely intelligent the Chandlers are; they are nothing like the Arvizo clan, who will botch a real molestation claim by 'over-egging the pudding', so to speak.
The Chandlers, had this been a colossal lie, would absolutely not implicate any other boy in the scam because they are not stupid.
Do you follow?
Implicating other boys in a scam incurs risk. Yes, Brett Barnes could easily deny it either way but a liar would not be able to come back and say, "Well, Brett, if we are such liars, by all means, get a medical examination to prove us wrong," and be so emphatic about it.
Your argument is fallacious. If Michael Jackson had simply told Jordie this was an activity he and Brett did, but Jacko was lying about this contact, this does not invalidate Jordie Chandler's claims of having been molested. Simply, the suggestion of getting a medical examination of Brett Barnes meant that Evan Chandler believed what his son told him: as intelligent as Evan Chandler was, he knew that an adult male applying Vaseline to the anus of an unrelated young boy meant more than soothing constipation; it meant anal play, which is sexual abuse.
I did not make the claim in my article that it was not possible that Jacko was simply being helpful to Brett but that it was undoubtedly sexual or pleasing to Michael Jackson to do such a thing. There could be no other reason why he would share this activity with Jordie.
This is 1+1 stuff here, Pauline; keep up with the big girls.
As regards to Kassim Abdool, his claims cannot be verified as well as Ralph Chacon's but it is interesting that they corroborate what was written in Evan Chandler's chronology about this Vaseline task. That Abdool was allegedly a former police officer does not ameliorate your position that he should have acted.
We can all naysay and say so-and-so should have alerted police or so-and-so should not have allowed their young sons to sleep in Jacko's bed but we were not there and this was Michael Jackson.
Michael Jackson was beloved; no one would believe lowly employees who said Jacko was a criminal! Innocent Michael Jackson? No way! This certainly is not a defense of these employees' actions but it is a reasonable explanation. We can all argue what we would have done but we were not in their shoes. So, essentially, your position is moot.
As for your ridiculous Victor Gutierrez/Ralph Chacon connection, how would Chacon have gleaned the "kissing all over the boy's body" from "Michael Jackson was my lover" if the book was published after 1994? It was in 1994 that Chacon first told his story to authorities.
(cont.)
And if he completely fabricated a story, which he obviously did not, why say the boy was Jordie Chandler when he described Brett Barnes? Why not describe Jordie Chandler? Apparently, attorneys and investigators from both Santa Barbara and Los Angeles counties found Chacon credible enough to travel all the way to Melbourne to talk to Brett's parents. And the mother knew full well her son had been molested.
The Neverland Ranch's culture of silence and secrecy was undeniable. That Ralph Chacon allegedly brought his children to an event at Neverland following what he had seen does not discredit his story; it simply demonstrates that he brought his children to enjoy the amusements!
Tell me you are nuanced enough to know that Neverland was still innocently enjoyed by children! I even know this. I would agree with you if you said that Chacon then allowed his children to (a) be alone with Jacko; (b) spend the night at Neverland; and (c) allow them to spend the night in Jacko's bed(room). If Chacon did none of the above, bringing his children to a 'Family Fun Day' does not destroy his credibility.
The Barneses reaction to his account and then disallowing Brett to even be questioned validates it! They could have protested and agreed to allow Brett to be questioned if he had not been molested.
If you are banking on Roger Friedman for your 'impression' of Chacon, it is worth noting that Friedman also thought Grace Rwaramba was a terrible person as well. He also reported that Jacko had paid $300,000 to a family in Argentina over molestation claims and that Michael Jackson was not the biological father of his children.
Do you believe Friedman when he says those other things, or just when it suits your viewpoint? Bottom line for me is that he was not there. His opinion on Chacon is irrelevant. The old truism is that even prostitutes can be raped and even a liar can tell the truth once. Again, his opinion on Chacon is not a 'slam dunk' for your side.
Finally, it is odd to me--very odd--that you would attempt to doubt the veracity of that FBI report! How can you say that this Canadian couple did not see and hear what they saw and heard? Were you there?
And what was the point of linking the Youtube video? So, if one says they've heard questionable noises between an adult and a child, 'Steve' will be there to joke about it...
Are you so intellectually limited that you would deny an account on the sole basis that you "believe" Jacko would not hurt a child and, thus, anyone who says differently is a liar?
Michael Jackson's fans are so arrogant in their stupidity. How can you deny a document? What kind of logic do you employ, if you employ any?
Explain to me why Brett Barnes would continue to sleep in the bed with Michael Jackson until he was 19?
I have certainly wasted my time replying to your comment.
Jessica:
As you can see by 'Steve's' comment, Jacko's fans cannot directly dispute the FBI report. I was on a vindication site and when I mentioned the report and that the eyewitnesses never sold their story, etc. the only thing they could say was that perhaps it was a Michael Jackson impersonator or maybe they did not have their glasses on.
Ridiculous, really.
The report is unimpeachable. These eyewitnesses have none of the credibility issues that the others have (although that does not discount their stories).
We know from my 'Explosive Proof' entries where I showed documents that verified Michael had foreign semen in his bed and was, thus, gay, the fans will always deny what is right in front of them. They will question the source of the document or claim it was manipulated, etc. if they do not like its content.
It is pretty pathetic really.
I think, given the evidence I've presented here, it is no doubt Brett had been molested as a child and was still having sexual contact with Michael as he matured into a young man.
I have given up arguing with these idiotic fans. This information is here for open minds to read. The fans have decided to worship a gay pedophile and only a video of sex abuse would convince them he was a molester.
And given the secrecy of molestation, there could never be a video.
Let's just say: Michael Jackson was lucky he was rich and famous.
Actually Desiree it isn't completely true when you say that you don't block comments is it? Next maybe you can explain this link. Maybe you were just “selective” in the portions of the testimony and documents that you posted.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152871,00.html
And then when you are done with that could you explain why in that drawing Jordan was dictating to his father he referred to Orietta Murdock a former employee that also supposedly told Victor Gutierrez that Michael bleached his skin. There is no such thing as Orietta bleach. And then explain why in that same page of "Evan's Chronology" he has things like a question mark after Jordie masturbated Michael, and “check the date". And last but not least Jordan supposedly saw Michael well enough to describe him and according to "your story" he would have known the difference between circumcised and intact how come he never saw or felt this.
http://www.noharmm.org/anatomy.htm
* The above is a link to a medical site in circumcision and it does show the adult male penis and it does have a video of a penis showing the movement of the foreskin during self stimulation.
Just a little FYI it would not be slander it would be libel against the persons that you have written about. That is the publication of the information that can be proven that you know it is false. It can be proven that you know that it is not true simply by the fact that you have indeed read the transcripts and have simply used portions of them to twist it to your liking. It has already been proven in a court of law that everything you have printed is denied by Brett, Karly, and Lisbeth Barnes, Wade, Chantal, and Joy Robson. Frank Cascio and his family have publicly denied any and all of your allegations. Now knowing that in a court of law and under oath these people have said that it did not happen and it was proven that those very people you call credible were in fact the perjurers where do you suppose that leaves you?
If anyone would like to hear the facts of the matter visit this site. Read through the posts and make a reasonable decision.
http://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/about/
Lyn,
Vindicate MJ deletes comments and/or changes comments from "haters". Desiree allows all comments. So how can you legitimately advertise your blog on her site when I bet she wouldn't be able to do the same. Besides, nothing on your website makes sense, most of it being half baked "Michael was framed!!!111!!!" conspiracies. Turning semen into saliva, and the "saliva" from his kids to boot, is pure witchcraft and logically indefensible. You'd do well to reevaluate that piece!
If any case of libel would be brought against Deisree for her posts, it would not be successful. American law protects freedom of speech and these are her opinions based on sound research. You and your ilk say that Jordie Chandler, Gavin Arvizo, and Jason Francia, among many others, are liars, extortionists, etc. Would it not be possible that they too could sue you for lying about their character? You and other Wacko fans have most certainly engaged in conduct that the would fit into the legal definition of libel, namely your words have caused harm (emotional, reputation, etc). And they too could present that you have falsely accused them of lying against Michael Jackson.
Libel would have to be proven by the plaintiff and must fit 2 to 3 criteria: a. the statements must be shown as false, b. the statements are demonstrated to have caused some form of harm, and c. if the plaintiff is a well known figure(Michael Jackson "special friend" fits this category IMO), he/she must show that the defendent knew the statements were false and said them with malicious intent. Those three criteria would never be met. Also opinions, which is what Desiree is ultimately presenting (as are you Wacko fans), are not actionable. So essentially you are wasting your brain cells trying to accuse someone of libel.
I don't really think that Brett Barnes would want his day in court. It wouldn't be that fun to reveal to the world a sexual relationship with Wacko Jacko. I suspect that it is you Wacko fans that should be more afraid of being hit with a libel suit. You people have attacked every single person that says Mike was not a saint.
Lynette:
First of all, no one who reads my blog is interested in your website. The vast majority of my readers have been through the fan drivel and want the truth, which is what I provide. Your site is merely a post-humous extension of Jacko's PR camp. Enough is enough.
Secondly, it is odd to me that you would insinuate that I block comments on this website when that is the rule du jour at yours. If you look up the word "hypocrite" in the dictionary, I am sure you'll notice a small line drawing of your undoubtedly wrinkled mug near the entry.
If someone posts a comment and upon refreshing the page it is no longer there, it is because it was sent to the spam folder. As you can see, I give a warning to let a commenter know that it may disappear, especially if it contains links.
I saved yours from the spam folder. Your website, on the other hand, stifles all legitimate dissent. For the record so everyone knows: apparently, you've blocked my IP address and have disallowed my comments.
Very pathetic, Lynette, although I don't bother going to sites like yours; again, I can just as easily anticipate the blah-blah-blah: "Michael's innocent because he made Thriller and can moonwalk!" "Michael's innocent because he said so!"
Yeah, okay, great... I got it, thanks. I'd rather fingerpaint with choleraic feces than read anything by you, Blaine, or the Russian brownshirt.
As for the Roger Friedman article you linked, what is your point? I am sure you had to have one when you pasted it in the comment box; so, enlighten us, by all means. Friedman simply related the testimony about the Santa Maria trial, which is not pertinent to what Ralph Chacon saw between Brett Barnes and Michael Jackson.
What would be the point of my highlighting this? Yes, the Neverland Five sold stories to tabloids, they lost their lawsuit, and they were considered malicious and fraudulent liars by the jurors in that case. Did I not mention this in my article?
However, and unfortunately for you, this is nothing more than reasonable doubt; you are not proving innocence. Apparently law enforcement found Chacon credible enough in his physical description of Brett Barnes that they flew down to Melbourne in an attempt to interview he and his family.
As you can read in the court-sworn Prosecution document I've put into the entry, Mrs. Barnes seemed pretty shaken by Chacon's account; Mr. Barnes was upset.
The Santa Maria trial, tabloids, and judgements do not change what was seen and what he reported to the Grand Jury.
Please, by all means, explain Mrs. Barnes' reaction, the couple on the train, and how Chacon accurately described young Brett Barnes. Explain what would be the reason a 19-year-old male would continue to sleep in the bed with Michael Jackson.
I doubt it was for the warm milk and cookies!
Please explain Jolie Levine, Mary Coller, and Charmaine Sternberg, too. Oh, I am sorry, everyone is a liar even when the evidence presented proves this is not the case.
As for the drawing, I do not know what 'Orietta bleach' is. But we also don't know the in-and-outs of Evan Chandler's shorthand. Perhaps he was scribbling to himself "Orietta bleach", which meant "Orietta Murdoch used to pick up Michael Jackson's bleaching creams and she can verify that he used these products."
(cont.)
It's speculation, maybe wildly so, but speculation is all we can count on when we were not there when Jordie was dictating to his father. It could mean anything. It is simplistic to assume he meant an 'Orietta brand' bleach. Frankly, it's stupid.
You should know that that was not even the official drawing given to authorities and Brett Barnes was mentioned in the chronology. If the picture was a fake-out made by Gutierrez for his book--which it was not because that is Evan's handwriting--it would not discredit the aforementioned or the eyewitness accounts.
But it's not a fake.
The simplest explanation--and I realize you hate those kinds of things--for Evan's use of question marks or "check the date" to something is that he was note taking in preparation for going up against Jacko and wanted to get their story, for lack of a better term, straight. If you choose to believe that was due to the whole thing being a 'lie', that can easily be countered by the notion that he knew he had to be iron-clad going up against a powerful celebrity with money and fame behind him.
Also, it does not hurt that they were 'silenced' so quickly with a $25 million settlement shortly after the scandal made headlines.
In sum, it was a chronology; dates are important. Excuse him for trying to get everything tiptop!
Bizarrely, you seem to be stuck on the circumcision bit. Most people cannot tell the difference between erect circumcised and uncircumcised penises. Additionally, you are failing to acknowledge that all foreskin is not created equal; watch a little gay porn--for penises galore--and you will see the wide array of possibilities in foreskin. You are certainly splitting hairs on this one.
According to court documents, circumcised or not, Jordie Chandler was able to accurately describe the spots on Jacko's penis when it was erect. So accurate was he that Sneddon wanted to bring it into trial.
What, don't tell me, Lynette? Sneddon 'lied' in that court document, too? He was able to lie to the judge who saw these photos and this description, as judges see all evidence seeking admission?
You don't seem intellectually gifted but I am sure even you would be able to understand that! Unfortunately for Sneddon, he argued the wrong point and was denied. A veteran prosecutor would not 'lie' under penalty of perjury. If you think otherwise, you are living on the Moon.
I won't even address the libel issue, which you've oddly tried to correct me on; no need, I am fully aware of the difference. There is nothing libelous on this blog, unless one finds notarized court transcripts and documents libelous. That I can find documents and spoken testimony to support my historically accurate view that Michael Jackson was a gay pedophile tells me that I am in good shape.
That you and Blaine and the other drones can only whine about them without the courtesy of refutation tells me you have nothing.
Documents, transcripts, and a little rational thinking thrown in for good measure are unimpeachable. The Barneses and the Robsons know that what I say is the truth. If you'd like to spend your time rehashing the same talking points that Michael Jackson was innocent because he can sing, dance, and he said so, have at. If you want to continue to think everyone who says something negative about Jacko is a part of some grand conspiracy, have at.
You have created a mythology on top of a mythology. My God, Lynette, all you do is say everything presented in a court-sworn document is false unless it helps Jacko. I mean, how stupid is that? Very!
I am sorry you undoubtedly overworked your brain leaving that comment and have said nothing in the process. Pity. I've wasted more time.
And it says, "Bleaching cream, Orietta." That is shorthand, you tool. The whole image is full of sentence fragments; he's taking notes. Can the guy not use shorthand when he's being dictated to without Jacko's fans jumping on him?
Instead of harping on these tiny and insignificant details that are essentially unimportant, why don't you give more time to explaining Jacko's odd and allegedly criminal behaviors. Why does a grown ass man want and need to sleep in the bed with young boys, and why does an innocent man pay a tenth of his net worth to liars?
If you say "He was forced to pay," please gag yourself with a spoon.
Jessica:
Wacko Jacko was a SICKO to the nth degree!!
Yes, I thought the same thing about your comment about how MJ was playing Jordy and Brett both against each other...Of course, if MJ could tell both of them how the other 'special friend' loved him more than the other 'special friend' in confidence, he could finagle his way and get the sexual attention he was seeking, and guilt trips played a big part in it. Michael was playing both boys against one another like puppets and he knew how to 'pull the strings' to make it happen....sick, sick, sick!
The Vaseline shenanigans was something that MJ got off on; no doubt about it. Desiree had a good point when she said how the constipation problem could have been handled a different way. Which reminds me, wasn't MJ always surrounded by medical staffing as well?...I mean he always had his "doctors" who could fix his special problems whenever he needed it. Surely they were capable of accommodating a simple constipation problem? LOL
Also, if the 'constipation problem' was really an on going problem like MJ made it out to be, then Brett along with his mother should have sought medical attention early on so that it wouldn't continue to be a problem...MJ's 'Vaseline remedy' shouldn't have been something that continuously needed applying. But obviously, MJ didn't feel that informing mother Barnes was really necessary because doing so would have been too much like 'right', but mostly it would've exposed his "little box of secrets". lol However; he didn't mind informing Jordy of that problem. MJ would've definitely be found out and telling mother Barnes would risk that...Or should I say, put BOTH of them at risk; as it was obvious that she did not have the 'conversations' with Mr. Barnes regarding Brett's in-the-sack arrangements with Michael like she claims she did. She was bullshitting! Mr. Barnes was probably kept in the dark to some degree about the sleeping arrangements and bringing attention to Brett's constant constipation problem would tell it. When she first came to Neverland, all she saw was dollars signs and the opportunity to live high off the hog...Brett's safety and well being made no difference as long as she/they were being compensated for it. She pimped her son on MJ...All the garbage about being concerned with imposing on MJ was pure BS; that didn't even cross her mind. It was all BS because it was becoming crystal clear to the court that she looked bad as a parent for what she had done.
How awful...the sick depraved minds!
The 'Train ride' incident was believable. The social workers did the right thing. Did the social worker report the incident the following day or actual night that she heard the strange noises. I have to wonder, because if it was at the time it actually happened, I would question as to why someone from the train's security did not go to the noisy car and investigate to see what was going on. Just from the way I understand it, it sounds as if the report was made the following day...Too bad the complaint wasn't made at the time of the occurrence as it would have possibly brought more attention and witnesses to the incident. The story is believe able as they could have easily sold it to the tabloids, but did not.
Name calling/ad hominem attacks? You are so much fun to play with Des. It s so easy to push your buttons, after all I installed these buttons didn't I? And you react ever so predictably each and every time. LOL
Oh and you and your sister posting comments under 2-3 differnt names? Do you even have a sister? How many personalities do you have Cybil?
Desiree:
It's funny how the whole circumcision thing is a hard concept for the fans to grasp. It's not hard at all, but they make it hard. Circumcised or uncircumcised, that doesn't mean shit; simply irrelevant. The actual fact that Jordan was able to give detail of a specific marking on the KOP's 'lollipop' is completely undeniable...Please, spare me the 'Circumcised/Uncircumcised Penis 101 for Dummies' will ya! lol
There is definitely no question that the fans are on another planet...It's astonishing how EVERYONE is a liar! lol If there could be a dollar placed for every lie that MJ told, he would've easily had the money to pay his debts and not have to take out any loans...He would've also given Pinocchio a run for his money. How stupid can you get?!
All this craziness because he's Michael Jackson...any other Joe Blow wouldn't stand a chance.
Desire:
According to Lyn's comment, I think the 'overwork' of the brain in her comment went into overdrive and caused a huge cramp. A cramp so bad that she couldn't offer any explanation to what you asked:
Please, by all means, explain Mrs. Barnes' reaction, the couple on the train, and how Chacon accurately described young Brett Barnes. Explain what would be the reason a 19-year-old male would continue to sleep in the bed with Michael Jackson.
It funny how some people can easily evade answering certain questions when they're called out, but instead find it justifiable to throw rocks...the backbone is lacking!!lol
Not only did Jordan and Brett have a similar appearance, there were some behavioral parallels as well. If you compare Brett's television interview with the audio of Jordan's psychiatric interview, they were both soft-spoken and seemed to have a more passive nature about them. In photos/videos of them with Michael, they often stood very close to him. By that age, most boys are typically trying to display their independence and would not allow themselves to be coddled in front of photographers and television cameras. Just look at the WMA. How many 13-year-olds would be so comfortable sitting between a grown man's spread apart legs with millions of spectators watching? And, as you already mentioned, how many 19-year-olds would continue to share a bed with someone when there are other beds available and the room is decorated with dolls and Peter Pan collectable toys?
Jordan and Brett were the sort of children a child molester would court--they were easy targets. Michael would never abuse someone like Corey Feldman because he knew Corey would have resisted. He looked for boys who were naturally more vulnerable to manipulation and control, and I believe he found that in Jordan and Brett (among others).
Lyn,
Why haven't you answered any questions? Oh that's right, you can't.
And no, me and Desiree are not the same people. Please. I bet that's what you fans hope, that there is really no one that really thinks that there is evidence that Mike was guilty but her. Newsflash, Lyn, only the fans think he was innocent. Most people that aren't fans think he was either guilty or aren't sure.
What the heck are you talking about installing buttons? Please. Your arguments are a snoozefest and do not, as you think, show in any way, shape, or form, that your beloved was innocent. I just couldn't believe that any of you people from VMJ would have the audacity to leave your url on Desiree's blog when you guys never let dissenters leave comments on your blog. That's just hypocritical. Oh well, by the time people come to Desiree's blog, they probably have had enough of all the "refuting" of he colf hard pedo fact that fan site claim they are doing. Please, if you can't answer the simple questions, why are you wasting your time. Again, you wrote on your site that the semen was saliva from his kids. LMAO. I'm going to trust what you say.
Lady C,
Mike was a sicko. And these parents allowed all of it to happen. Lisbeth Barnes reaction IMO was one of those reactions that were completely caught off guard and spontaneous, and we all know tha twhen you can catch someone off guard you can get the truth out of them. Mr. Barnes reaction was like that too. I bet they had thought that that could of happened, especially given the way that Mike INSISTS on having these boys sleep in bed with him.
I'm with you, stopping talking about the circumcision. The fans can never explain why the prosecutor, who many people (fans...are fans people? LOL) thought that he might have had a vendetta, would want to put into evidence photographs and Jordie Chandler's description of Mike's penis as given to the cops if the description didn't match. Why would he do that, especially if it would make him look really, really bad and corrupt? They cannot answer that because it makes no sense. Only a month after Mike was body search did he setle with the Chandlers, for an amount that was 10% of his net worth at the time. It matched. It matched. It matched!
Frenchie,
You are so right. Have you watched that video Sarah linked? I totally agree with you that Corey Feldman and I think Emmanual Lewis would not have been victims because they seem much more strong willed and independent. Pedophiles usually have victims that are easy to grrom and cultivate, and given Jordie's and Brett's size and personality type, I think they were easy victims. I always found it interesting that Mike's special friends were always fanboys, rather than notables, save Mac and Manny. I think Mike could easily manipulate them because of how much in awe the were of his talent and music. Easy pickings.
Wade Robeson said on the stand that Mike would frequently have conversations with him when he was a kid about how it was okay for a person Mike's age to sleep with young boys. I think Mike manipulated these boys into thinking that was okay, so it's definitely not a far stretch that he was able to get a 13 year old soft spoken fanboy like Jordie to agree to set between his legs at the WMA. Plus, pedos don't molest every kid they see, so Mike probably knew some of his friends were off limits. But clearly that didn't stop him from showing nude books to Corey and insisting that he be able to bring porn to Corey's house when he stayed over.
Lynette:
Because this is my blog, I have the freedom to make two choices: I can either be civil towards a simpleton while I destroy their argument or I can berate a simpleton while I destroy their argument.
Since it's my blog, typically I will choose the latter just because I like to, depending on the tone of a given simpleton, of course. Many people are masochists and if they come to the 'den', they can to play with the dominatrix. That'd be me; I enjoy it more than you can imagine.
You do not push any buttons, Lynette; I don't have buttons and if I had some installed by you (dream on), I'd be better off leaping over a precipice. I realize that, along with Michael Jackson not being gay, one-upping me--or the delusion of one-upping me--is also masturbation fantasy for you. I understand the attraction of someone such as myself because I am intelligent and provocative; you want to be a part of this world. If you want to pretend that I even care about what you say, which I do not, have at. Apparently I care enough to go to Vindicate MJ; oh, wait, I don't go there!
Again, I'd choose choleraic feces as fingerpaints!
Lynette, I will always defend my pieces and will always answer a detractor. I will also kowtow to the "Jacko was innocent" camp in the event you can provide good evidence, not emotion-based boilerplate, that Jacko never moved as much as a hair out of place on a young boy. I've yet to be convinced, though.
Being a writer with a gift for linguistical 'color', I like to entertain myself with the countless ways of how I can write, "You are stupid," without actually saying it.
And I have found out there are innumerable ways! And it's fun! I mean, I guess I could say, "Lynette, you are a fucking moron," but I won't be so explicit. But, yes, I am thinking it.
You know, Lynette, this is not an adult day care center and I have no intention of cleaning up your spittle. If you cannot answer the questions put to you, be honest enough to admit it, and then go away.
Here's a new rule (not exactly 'new' but I will enlighten you): if you cannot even engage in debate--and be aware that you will be attacked because you are an annoying and bitter old lady--I will delete your comments.
I want dialogue, Grandma, not a string of low IQ LOLs and accusations of multiple personality. Please do not waste my time.
By the way, Lynette, why not link to Vindicate MJ in your name? I think that would be more conducive to people 'checking out' your site. I encourage people to do so; I hear that deep and prolonged belly laughs are a good substitute for sit-ups.
Here at DSSL, I care about my readers' health.
Lady C:
The penis issue is ridiculous to me, as well. It is a nonissue because it does not change the fact that Jordie Chandler was able to accurately describe the spots on Jacko's penis. None of us know how his foreskin looked. Uncircumcised penises are NOT created the same; there is no blueprint for the way foreskin is supposed to look. Some men with attached foreskin have the glans 'peeking out' while others have it looking like an elephant trunk, completely enclosed with a navel-like indent.
If Michael Jackson was uncircumcised--and let's argue that the autopsy report was not doctored as I think it was (mainly to de-emphasize his constant drug use but I wouldn't put pass lying about his circumcision as well)--it was obviously something that Jordie was confused by.
But this does not change the fact he accurately identified the spots on Michael's penis and where a conspicuous one 'fell' when Michael was erect! And this is a point that cannot be gotten past by the fans.
For all we know, Michael Jackson only showed his penis to Jordie when it was erect, as men can become erect in an instant; I wouldn't be surprised if Jacko was so aroused by Jordie, a truly adorable and beautiful boy, whenever they had the opportunity to be undressed in each other's presence.
And even that Jordie was to have masturbated Michael Jackson, he still can get confused. Again, you really cannot tell the difference and all foreskin is not created equal. Apparently, Jacko saw his penis as different by comparison to Brett Barnes', who must have had foreskin that completely covered the glans of his penis like a little elephant trunk. He remarked on it to Jordie Chandler.
I don't understand why this is the issue with fans; it is not there 'hole-in-one', their 'coup de grace'! Under penalty of perjury, Sneddon wrote a brief about the corroboration between Jordie's drawing and the photographs of Michael's penis taken in 1993, so much so he wanted to bring them before the jury.
Why would he want to bring in photos if they do not match? The judge had seen these photos and the description! If it did not match, he would have been knocked on his ass for such foolishness.
A veteran prosecutor with an amazing track record of wins would not HUMILIATE himself in front of the media and the jury by introducing into court incongruous photographs and descriptions! This is 1+1 stuff here.
27 MR. ZONEN: Your Honor, I think we’ve
28 adequately stated our position in the pleadings. I
1 can tell you that with regard to the relevance of
2 that material, there was quite a bit of testimony
3 that was presented during the course of the defense
4 case about nothing untoward or inappropriate
5 occurring in Michael Jackson’s bedroom and numerous
6 witnesses who have testified to the fact that many
7 children, particularly back in the 1993, ‘94, ‘92
8 period, who spent not just nights, but weeks and
9 even months in Michael Jackson’s bedroom, in Michael
10 Jackson’s bed, and it was a completely nonsexual
11 event.
12 The fact that this child was able to give a
13 description of a unique feature of his anatomy that
14 could not have been known by him except for a very
15 intimate acquaintance with Mr. Jackson is very good
16 circumstantial evidence of the fact that the
17 relationship between he and at least that child was
18 something more than casual and something more than
19 innocent.
(cont.)
Lady C:
According to Harvey Levin, he had seen Jordie's description and said it was very detailed; according to the documentary Sarah linked, Bill Dworin stated the photos and Jordie's description matched; according to Dr. Strick, Michael's penis was 'very odd looking' and he was informed that the penis he saw during the body search was absolutely congruous with Jordie's description.
The fans then jump on the "Why did Strick have to be told it matched?" thing. Perhaps because he was only there to verify the vitiligo and was not privy to the description Jordie'd given.
Why did they not act with this evidence? They handled Michael Jackson with kid gloves the entire time; even with a positive ID, they would still want more evidence. He's Michael Jackson, for God's sake, not some guy down the street.
The point is they wanted to bring it in to court in 2005. It MATCHED. Period. The 8-figure settlement only a month following the body search proves this.
By the way, Lady C, I never thought about Mrs. Barnes having lied about having conversations with her husband but that is probably more correct. I just assumed they had had them because they knew the arrangement was odd, that it was bizarre that a grown man would want to sleep in bed with a 9-year-old.
Honestly, Mrs. Barnes probably was like, "Yes, yes, Michael, take our son!" because he was Michael Jackson. She may have only pretended to be a normal parent (i.e. saying they had convos) just in front of the jury. Her stammering is a sign of her lies; Statement Analysis 101.
I suspect Mr. Barnes was not at Neverland as much as she was and, therefore, would not be privy to the sleeping arrangements. Hell, they definitely were not there when they allowed Brett to be 'fetched' and brought to Nevrland!
Common sense says that there was no way Brett slept in a guest unit when he went to Neverland alone. No way! He was with Michael Jackson, as he always was when even his family was there.
Jacko typically only had the mothers around because women are more easily swayed by a man's charm than a man is, although June Chandler put up a good resistance for a while until Jacko started crying and bribing her with gifts. Women are more easily impressed with materials than men, as well, I believe; most consumer products are geared toward women, especially luxury items. A bracelet here, a necklace there, it would be too simple.
Her answer about having to involve her husband because he was apart of the family was odd. And coupled with his indignation with her when they were questioned in Australia, she probably never told him Brett was always sleeping in bed with Jacko.
OBVIOUSLY, they did not refute the allegation! They knew it was true. Then she goes back and says Sneddon made it all up when two people write court-sworn declarations that that was NOT true?
How can we trust anything that comes out of her mouth?
Brett Barnes was molested and was having sex with Michael Jackson until he was 19. The evidence is there.
sorry it took so long to get back to you I had to go to work.Actually Desiree you have once again taken a sentence written one way and spun it in another. Explain why Jordan was dictating anything about Orietta to his father might have been a better question? Or why was he dictating to be selective? Or better yet how do you explain the fact that Brett was questioned in 1993 because he and his family were at Neverland when it was searched? So why did he have to be questioned again? The Authorities went to Australia to again question him based on the information that they got from Kassim Abdool and Ralph Chacon that’s why.
Did you read all the pages of the FBI files because it just so happens that there were no new leads in the case. One reason that the FBI might not have found the story of the social worked credible is that Michael Jackson was in Washington DC picking up another one of those pesky awards he used to get something about a Lifetime Achievement Award from National Black Owned Broadcasters or something like that.
I particularly liked page 51 of the same file where a writer went to a cop and said that the FBI had covered up an investigation of Michael in 1985-86 because he was supposed to get an award from President Reagan. That this agent called “the Mormon” was the one that he contacted. This poor writer that had been researching his book about pedophiles since 1984 and he had given all of this information to the FBI and they completely ignored it. The FBI likes to be thorough though and they looked into it but of course found nothing. I wonder who those 2 little Mexican boys were and I wonder who the Author was? Do you think it was because Michael got the award a year before he made the allegations?
http://youtu.be/C6uJvkQ-bmM
I know it is much more fun to believe that the Neverland Five were telling the truth because their story is so much more enticing to you. And after all they were paid for their story so it must be the truth right? I know it probably is just coincidental that they met with their lawyer in the Santa Maria Courthouse along with Gary Morgan of Splash News and none other than Victor Gutierrez. This is when they sold their story to the Star magazine to pay for the lawsuit against Michael. I guess that doesn’t do anything to their credibility.
Last but not least maybe you could take a step back as a biology major, I am assuming you have taken all of the required human anatomy classes and think about what you are saying when you suggest that Brett was anally penetrated. You do know of course in reality this would have cause much more than mere constipation in a 10 year old child it would have been a medical emergency with profuse bleeding and screaming pain even with your so called lubricant. But you wouldn’t know that because you haven’t seen that have you? You see Brett was 10 when this was supposedly happening not 13 he was younger than Jordan.
Desiree/Jessica:
Well, I guess the heat in the kitchen got too hot for some and decided that they needed to get the hell out! LOL
Jacko,with his ill-depraved mind, preyed upon both Jordan and Brett, and he knew how to work them over. Michael knew one of Jordan's weaknesses; Jordan had become jealous of Brett when they were together at Neverland due to the lack of attention MJ wasn't giving him...Pedos toy with their victims' emotions, building up their self esteem in the process while they play on their victims' biggest loves/fears. Michael did this. Remember how MJ confronted Jordan by telling him that he needed to 'fill in the gap' so to speak by putting his mother, June, in check when she resisted? He also went on to tell him that if he couldn't fill the gap, the next person would...We all know who that was. Also, the guilt trips he laid on him about who loves who more...Michael played on their vulnerability. Using the paid trips to Disney Land, toys, etc. was just bait to lure them in and keep them hooked.
Also for pedos, good behavior is a must when the parent/guardian is around; Michael went to great lengths to parade to the parents a clean wholesome image. A parents' presence is a nuisance to the pedo as there's no opportunity rule power over the victim. They need complete isolation for their craft to be successful ...That in itself explains why MJ kept the child separated from their parents. It's true that pedos, don't prey on just any child, but are selective as to who they can reel in. They have to 'test the waters' to see who can be a target. MJ may have had his 'special friends', but there were "exclusives" that he felt safe with, and Jordy and Brett fit that bill.
His sleeping with MJ all those years; was insistent because he "wanted it", liked the attention that MJ was giving him, it's safe to say that Brett probably fell in love with Michael...His quitting his job just to testify on his behalf is a good indication of that love.
Désirée, excellent post!
A jar of vaseline in the car? This one have me thinking.
What a twisted soul he was. Faeces and boys... two MJ's obsessions combined.
For the moronic fans, please, use the common sense every once in a while. You can refuse to believe all the witnesses and debate the most insignificant detail of the testimonies, but sooner or later you will stumble over the incontestable facts. Your idol was a grown up man who slept a whole year on tour with a boy, not once, but every time he toured solo.
He had J. Safechuck during the Bad Tour, Brett in the Dangerous Tour, and the Cascios in the History Tour. Not to mention his sleepovers with the boys at Neverland, the Hideout, hotels...
Brett Barnes slept 365 days with him. This information comes from her sister, a witness for the defence. So after a concert where Michael displayed his sexual movements and erections on stage (you fans love to comment about it in every forum), he went back to the hotel to share his bed with a boy! This image does not disturb you?
His special friends testified that no woman (or man) was in sight, so sorry, but the imaginary girlfriends are that... imaginary.
If Jimmy Safechuck had been investigated, the story would be the same. I ignored MJ slept with so many kids for so many years, because I wasn't following him. After his dead I started searching information and discovered Jimmy Safechuck was in every picture from the Bad Tour. MJ went to the stage accompanied by Bill Bray, Frank Dileo and Jimmy. His presence in such a reduced circle in a crucial moment for a singer is very revealing. He was in love.
We know more about Brett, Wade and the other recent special friends, but seeing the great amount of time he spent with Jimmy, I think his story is very similar to Brett's. I wonder whose were the faeces used to make the love note Bob Jones mentioned.
He identified the children as “his cousins”, but Frank Dileo told the press Jimmy was an orphan. Same excuse was used with Jonathan Spence. I suppose because they were too white to pass for his cousins. If all was innocent and pure, why the lies?
Jimmys father was questioned about the relationship by the media and he refused to comment. His silence is very telling, in my opinion. If he thought MJ was innocent and considering he had been so generous with his family (he went from garbage collector to rich business man), why he refused to help him making a little statement on his innocence. And why any of those parents sued the media for spreading such a damaging information about their children? They had been portrayed as victims of molestation for years, even when they were minors. All those parents are pimps.
I wonder how he controlled the boys in his long stays in the hotels. They barely went outside. The windows were always covered. Ugg, it must be so claustrophobic, I bet it smelled bad LOL. Children that age are very active and often complain because they get bored easily.
I've read he stayed in a luxury resort during the Bad Tour, accompanied by Jimmy, and they didn't left the room. In a sunny place, and exclusive hotel with privacy guaranteed and poor Jimmy was inside a room for days with Jacko.
@Jessica
Yep, I watched the video; it was very good. I have to say, Ray Chandler was so different than I imagined. Prior to watching, I had this mental image of him as kind of a sleazy shyster (I must have read too many MJ apologist sites), but he came off quite genuine and made a lot of insightful points.
This is entirely off-topic, but it really grates me when people act like Michael Jackson's dance moves were so revolutionary. Fosse would disagree: http://youtu.be/eUTEhEPONgc
Lynette:
You know, I was going to respond, long and carefully, as always, but I am not going to address any of those questions in your most recent comment until you first address those I asked of you.
This is a dialogue, not a lecture. Answer me, as I did for you, and I will respond in return. Otherwise, you have my permission to take your psychosis elsewhere.
I will not be badgered on my own website.
However, if you can be honest enough to admit that you cannot answer my questions, I will respond to your most recent ones.
Otherwise, no dice.
Desiree:
There was one question I wanted to ask you when you were discussing the 'penis theory' in your comment to me...Was there some sense of urgency on Sneddon's part to have the body search conducted on Michael ASAP? Was he afraid that MJ would try to bleach out the spot that Jordan depicted in his detailed description to discredit him. I was curious because it just occurred to me that when I was reading RJT's book, he says that when they were getting ready to take the pictures of Mike's genitalia, Sneddon's team informed Johnny Cochran of what 'specifics' they were going to be looking for in the photos. When MJ was told what they'd be looking for, he went completely ballistic. His whole demeanor throughout the strip search ordeal said it all. Perhaps if he had known in advance what they'd be looking for, I have no doubt that MJ would've been breaking his neck trying to find a way to 'erase' his infamous spot. Who knows, maybe he would've been trying to get his hands on some 'Orietta brand' bleach, as Lyn would call it! lol
That also goes to show you that Jordan was on the money as well as a huge threat to MJ...no wonder the hush money was so quick.
But I will address the date of the train ride because it is an easy one.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=KFdGAAAAIBAJ&sjid=A-gMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1211,1489556
According to the above story, Michael Jackson was in Washington DC on for a Thurs. night, Mar 5, 1992 broadcast for the award you mentioned, Lynette.
According to the eyewitnesses on the train, the voyage where they saw Michael Jackson and Brett Barnes was on Sat., Mar 7, 1992 traveling from Chicago, IL.
As you should be able to note, Thursday and Saturday are two different days; additionally, DC is not far from Chicago, IL. That would put a day between getting to Chicago from DC. It takes about 12 hours to drive from DC to Chicago.
Do you not think it is entirely possible that a very busy celebrity can zip from one city to another within a day and easily find himself on a train leaving Chicago, IL?
He did it while he was on tour!
Apparently, that's what happened here.
This eyewitness accurately pointed out that Michael Jackson was with the right 'special friend', as verified by the media. That 'special friend' would be Brett Barnes, or a male, black juvenile looking to be around 12- or 13-years-old.
They also remarked he called the boy 'cousin', a Michael Jackson term of endearment largely unknown, if known at all, by the media; they would have had to hear Michael use the term with this boy or to refer to this boy. They would not know it simply from reading magazines or newspapers.
They then stated Jacko had rented out four compartments--very plausible given his exceptional wealth.
What more do you need, Lynette? Pictures? These people gave incredible detail: from the day and date, to the staff members, to BRETT BARNES, to the use of the term "cousin".
Jacko was on the train with Brett Barnes. These people are credible. Michael Jackson was on the train making noises with his most special, 'special friend'--Brett--noises that this social worker working in Children's Services found to be alarming. And we know that only upon the dawn of the molestation scandal that they contacted the FBI with their account.
This means, as previously mentioned in my piece, that the sounds were sexual.
Again, they are credible, more credible than most, including Jacko himself.
Get over it.
Lady C:
Hilarious quip about the 'Orietta brand' bleach! It is just a stupid notion.
It is funny because Michael's Neverland statement made it seem as though he was super compliant with his 'humiliating' body search when that was far from the truth. He was violent and the photographers were unable to get all of the photographs they intended to take.
That reeks of fear to me. I know his side asked to see some document and were denied, according to Diane Dimond's book.
I don't know if there was any sort of urgency to take pictures of his spots but I personally think had Jacko known about what was coming, he may have bleached them away with his trusty Orietta bleach, ha!
Frenchie:
I agree with you about the dance moves. I think Michael was light on his feet--I will definitely give him that--but he was not the be-all, end-all.
Susana:
Great comment; I always enjoy your posts.
In terms of his seeming coprophilia, I want to know more about that hotel stay at the Mirage, I believe, where he had destroyed the room, had tons of German boys in his hotel, and the cleaning staff found a feces-covered sheet. Supposedly he was blacklisted from Vegas hotels after that stay.
There are just lots of instances of him and feces, now this with Brett Barnes. What's the deal?
Appreciate the your detail reporting. I like to keep it very simple. First I am a MJ fan, but I don't worship the man. He was human with flaws like each and everyone of us. IMO, he grew up in an enviroment where light, glamour, lies and deceit was illuminous. It's all he knew. He also, choose to be the greatest entertainer and it came with a terrible price, (your soul). We could critique MJ life to the smallest detail, but bottom line, he made a terrible choice which cause him an early death, earthly humiliation, loneliness, and regret. When I look at what was going on the outside, I could only feel pity for the guy, cause the inside was a tormented soul. He lost his life well before June 25, 2009. He is an interesting subject, I can't get enough of why, why and why.. It amazes me the extreme levels he went to be a fake legend he became physically,in order to have others remember his name!!!!
A child molester wouldn't invest that much time in a particular child if he wasn't molesting him. A child molester's goal is to molest. It's why he grooms the child and his family in the first place. If Jordie is to be believed, Michael was particularly cruel. He would let the child know in no uncertain terms that he would be banished and replaced in a heartbeat. And Michael always had several boys around at the exact same time. Love? It must have always been tinged with fear because their replacement was always sitting right there next to them. I feel sorriest for the long term kids because they must have sold their soul to remain in his company for that long.
Frenchie:
When you were commenting earlier about the similarities between Jordan and Brett, there was one other thing that I noticed that I don't know if you realized...They also both had the exact same middle name, Christopher. I thought that was kind of interesting.
Brenda,
I agree about the long time special friends. Something must have been exchanged so they would keep their silence. But remember that most of these special friends were fans, so Mike probably had a very easy time controlling them; what fan wouldn't want to be seen with there idol? I think that was definitely a bargaining tool that he used to keep them compliant. In Jordie's interview, the audio version, he sounded very sad talking about the whole thing. Mike used the "if you love me" routine to molest. I believe Jordie was just the one to blow the whole lid off what was going on behind closed doors. I'm willing to bet that if Brett or Jonathan or Jimmy talked truthfully, we'd hear the same things from them. I just think to myself, what single man in his 30s would go to bed with a young boy for 30 nights in a row? Sleeps in the bed with a boy for 365 nights? Who does that? Only a pedo does that.
Desiree,
Ah, you have shown that the passengers on the train were not liars with that newspaper clipping. Good. Not everyone is a liar. Don't they get that? The fans act as if these random people are trying to make money off of Mike at every turn. It's ridiculous and only makes them look more insane.
Please if, you have mercy let MJ rest in peace.he already died.Have a little mercy in his heart,the only person who can judge only is god.do not play to be God.God can speak to tomorrow Who are you to judge."Judge not, lest ye be judged. For in the same way you judge, you will be judged, and the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "
Matthew 7:1-2. I humbly beg you to let him rest in peace if you have compassion in your heart.peace and love in the heart of all human races.god bless you.
Desiree I love you facsination with fecal smearing. You know don't you that it is a huge red flag to childhood sexual abuse. I think you should come clean and relate your experience with your readers it would help them to better understand where you are coming from.
Lynette:
That was just pathetic projection.
I've read it all now: if you call Michael Jackson a pedophile, you're probably a pedophile; if you say he sexually abused boys, you were probably sexually abused.
I don't know where the psychosis ends.
You have refused to even engage in a simple back and forth. You have refused to answer questions put to you. Why? Because you have no rebuttal, you have no answer.
Please, return to your homebase and spout nonsense about semen really being the saliva of Prince and Blanket, which has no basis in reality--what don't you understand about parties in a trial not being able to lie to the judge about evidence, as he sees all of it? What don't you understand about semen being semen? What is so bad about him being a homosexual?
You know, no one is interested in a malignantly dumb troll.
Honestly, I feel sorry for you. I know you are fairly old but dementia is always a tragedy. I think it's time for you to drool elsewhere. As I've stated before, this is not an adult day care center.
All the best,
D.
To Everyone else:
Michael Jackson's fans are some of the most cretinous people I've encountered. As by Lynette's comment, they make fun of the sexually abused just because they think Michael was innocent.
It's sick.
They fail to realize he, too, was sexually abused on top of being verbally, emotionally, and physically abused.
They have no credibility because they base their arguments on emotion, from both extremes, not hard evidence. He is religion and the sophist contortions they spout to defend him must be upheld without question.
Remember, these are the same people who laughed at Jason Francia for crying about his molestation on the stand, a molestation he was paid over $2 million to never talk about.
They pretend to care about abuse victims and they pretend to be open-minded about homosexuality, but it is a farce and is woefully transparent.
See Lynette's comment. She is an example of what not to be and how not to think. (For the latter, remember, she thinks the foreign semen on Michael's bed was saliva.) Engaging her in dialogue is pointless because she does not understand the concept of intellectual reciprocity. Her responses consist of questions, not rebuttals; they consist of trickery, not lucidity.
Michael Jackson's fans are defending the indefensible. Because he made Thriller and can moonwalk, he could never hurt a child; this is the thought process. Show them the errors in their reasoning, they will shout that you have not researched enough. Tell them you have, they will call you a hater.
I could fisk through all of her comments, answering each, and then pose counter questions, and will get nothing in return but, "You were probably sexually abused."
Amazing!
Lynette, if you cannot play the game, you will be deleted. You will not clog up my comment section with stupidity; you will engage in an intelligent dialogue or you will go. That is the Golden Rule here on my blog.
I will not stand for your stupidity. Despite my being an intellectually gifted person, my brain also tires. I think it is time you leave; the next step is deletion if you will not abide by the rules.
Bullshit will not be tolerated.
Desiree,
Don't even waste your time with Lyn. She's a fan and they will see only what they want to see. There is no use trying to have a conversation with her, either on this blog or on her own since they delete/"edit" the comments of those that think Mike might have been guilty. Whatever fits their view they will promote, but they should remember that many people that think he was a child molester looked at all the same evidence that they still cling to, the only difference is that we have decided to truly contemplate the issues and have come to the conclusion that he was either guilty or that we don't know. I don't see how anyone who has really and truly looked into Michael Jackson's boy issues can come to the conclusion of 100% innocence. And don't get me started on how these fans see that he was a virile heterosexual womanizer...that ain't the truth! At least they should be honest enough to see that fact.
I read that one of the jurors in 2005, Ray Holtman, felt that he had a hard time believing Brett Barnes' testimony that Mike had never touched him. Even Roger Friedman thought that the Barneses and the Robsons testimonies had a certain "creep" factor in that they didn't make Mike look good. I tend to agree. A 19 year old sleeping in the bed with a 41-42 year old single man is not kosher. Friedman also described Brett as "not the hottest shrimp on the barbie" LOL, well, even though Jordie and Brett are a year apart in age, Jordie sounded much more intelligent and mature than Brett did at 12-13. Maybe that made him an easy victim, more easy to control?
I think Lady C mentioned it, but I agree that Lisbeth probably never had a real conversation with her husband about the sleeping arrangements. Per Mike's MO, he seemed to woo the mothers and often got children with no strong father figure...Jimmy, Jonathan, Wade, Jordie, the list goes on. I think that Mr. Barnes' reaction was pretty much on par with that off someone that didn't know what the hell was going on. Lisbeth Barnes said that she asked Brett if he had ever been molested and he said no, but remember how Jordie said to Richard Gardner that he and Mike had a special box that only they could know what was in it? Maybe Brett had one of those "special boxes" with Mike as well. he wasn't going to tell her. But I bet he would've told it to the cops had they be able to question him. I know he was briefly questioned as Neverland was raided, but I suspect he would've talked if the cops told him about what Ralph Chacon saw.
Susana, you said Jimmy Safechuck was referred to as an orphan? That's pretty sick, must have been Mike's way of explaining why he always had this kid around him. Jolie Levine said she always saw them together in bed during the Bad tour. The body language between Mike and Jimmy during the filming of the History teaser in 1994 was oddly intimate, especially considering Lisa Marie Presley was nearby.
I find it bizarre when people suggest that Desiree's blog is full of "haters". I'm new here, but I haven't come across any comments that are particularly hateful towards Michael Jackson. It seems, for the most part, we just pity how he devolved from a talented young performer into a deformed boy collecting drug addict.
Jessica:
I don't want to give her any more attention but I personally think it is pretty disappointing that, when pressed, Lynette cannot deliver. Even more disappointing is that she cannot admit she cannot deliver.
They DO NOT allow dissenters on their site. It is very, very cowardly and, all things considered, just proves they really don't have anything. Lynette is a space cadet; she orbiting planets in a far-away galaxy. You cannot have a conversation with someone like her because every black-and-white piece of evidence or testimony is twisted or rationalized into oblivion.
These people are emotion-based, not reason- or logic-based. They believe unquestionably everything that comes from Jacko's mouth. Every little thing.
I remember someone had said it before (I think it may have been Opinionation) but it was said that Michael Jackson's fans must not be that smart since everything that goes against his 'image' is pretty obvious.
I looked over at her moronic post about 'semen turning into saliva' the other evening and it was just ridiculous.
The fans cannot defend a single solitary thing about his life and his behaviors, so they focus on his accusers.
I think it is sort of sad. When the truth about Michael Jackson is revealed--maybe in a decade from now, who knows--or if one of his 'special friends' who defended him in the past admits he was abused, they will deny it.
Only a graphic sex tape will change their mind, or maybe even with that, they will still question it, maybe assume it was an impersonator.
I think it is one thing to like his music or his dancing or his effeminate voice and seeming charm, but you have to admit he did things that were inappropriate. When I was a fan of Michael's, mainly interested in his story and then his music, I defended his sleepovers. But when I found out he'd paid off another family beyond the Chandlers and the Francias, I felt sick. This was verified by people who worked for him, three people.
At that point, I started looking at him differently. It was for no other reason than that story I found.
Basically, when you remove the blinders, you see things for what they are. At that point, though, I still thought he was innocent of Jordie and Gavin, but thought harder about Jason Francia; I assumed he was telling the truth.
My biggest problem is that fans constantly target the (alleged) victims; the victims are always skewered. They never, ever look at Michael's weird behavior; he is never under the magnifying glass.
The reality is that this is not a court of law; only in a court of law does a defendant have the presumption of innocence. In debate outside of that realm, both sides are at the same level and, thus, both sides have to argue their points.
It is unfair to have anything less than this. It actually hurts me to think that these people, these fans, are targeting people who were telling the truth. I believe this to be the case based on the evidence available for all to peruse. I believe they are skewering Jordie Chandler, who was an abuse victim.
I don't hate Michael Jackson; that's what these fans do not understand. Highlighting his being a pedophile is not rooted in hatred. As I said, when I discovered that he was, I felt saddened because I knew he had been sexually abused as a boy and was possibly perpetuating the cycle.
Anyway, this blog is coming to a close. I can type for days showing this stuff and it will never matter because celebrities have this impenetrable layer around them. They can never do anything wrong. Show them to be less than their mythology makes them out to be and there is something wrong with you.
It is insanity.
I feel sorry for Michael's victims; it was unfortunate to have to be predated upon but it is even worse what he did to the families. It is all a tragedy on a colossal scale.
But, again, this blog is coming to a close. I'm getting sick and tired of being under appreciated for the hard work I do here. It is just not worth it anymore, coupled with the fact I am no longer interested in this shit. I am no longer interested in being mischaracterized because of my position.
I am irritated by the people who read this blog and do not comment on the entries. As a writer, I enjoy feedback. Not getting it is starting to chafe my ass, I am not going to lie to you.
He was a pedophile and gay. I'll finish my work but enough is enough. What more can I say on this? I will not beat my head against a wall.
One day, though, Michael Jackson will be shown to be exactly as I have shown him to be. And the fans will be unhappy on that day. I honestly predict suicides. What is this world coming to when you put all your energy and happy emotions into a dead man you have never met?
The human animal is a sad and pathetic creature who thrives on the simplest and basest of pleasures and on the most insane and nonsensical of bigotries. If I had a choice I would be one of those flies who dies after a day of eating and laying eggs or a burning star in another galaxy about to turn into a supernova. I do not wish to be a part of such an evolutionarily idiotic species.
Humans absolutely suck and are the stupidest of animals; only humans trail after the unbalanced. It is pathetic. Michael Jackson needed boundaries, not pats on the backs; he should have been told he couldn't sleep with boys or bleach his skin or take drugs and orphan his children. He should have not been allowed to spin every deviant act he did--morally, spiritually--as some consequence of having lost his childhood. I feel sorry for the way his life turned out. Such a tragedy on huge scale...
If it was up to me, he wouldn't be a pedophile, but a gay black man with his talents intact.
Frenchie,
That is the position of most people that have commented or probably read this blog, we just feel sorry for him. I don't think he was a monster but I do think that his behavior has been glossed over like it didn't matter. That's the problem and when you look hard enough and are objective, you see that his behavior was not normal and most likely criminal.
Desiree,
I get your frustration. I can tell you put a lot of time into your articles. I'm not a writer so I don't know how it feels but everyone wants to be appreciated for a job well done. Well, I just hope that you will go out with a bang and then have the blog still readable for future people that might become interested in Michael Jackson, especially when the trial comes out. It's good to have another viewpoint out there besides all the fan ideology and mythology. Its just sad that everyone that googles his name will just be referred to fansites. That is good if you are talking about his music but not good when you are talking about his life and legal troubles. In that regard your blog is almost a public service!
I too feel bad for all the families that get maligned. I know Ray Chandler left a review of Geraldine Hughes book on Amazon, as a way to get people to read his book as well. i think its says a lot that he is so bold about his nephew's allegations. I'd think everyone involved would just want to go away and never be mentioned again, but instead you have an uncle that wants his family's story told as it is, and not what people like Anothony Pellicano, Geraldine Hughes, and Mary Fischer says it was. It's jsut so sad that victims gat maligned the way they do. The fans don't even know Mike and they are willign to harass and taunt potential victims. That one blog "Anton Jackson" was created for the sole purpose of harassing the Arvizos. Allegedly, someone posed as a federal agant and went to the boys' new school and told everyone who they were. They had been living under assumed names in Georgia. Like how crazy does it get? Evryone one is evil and Mike is this innocent manchild that was tortured because he was childlike and, for some, because he was black. He hadn' been black since the bleaching process started in 1985!
If Mike was finally exposed as a child molester I think the fans would just dey it and then as the truth sets in, the violence will start. Some woman in MN I think tried to kill herself and 3 kids when she found out Mike had died. That's nuts; she never even met him! I wonder what evidence, besides a tape, that would get the fans to finally reevaluate the molestation cases. Would it be the victims themselves, or maybe if one of the "credible" Jacksons talked? Or maybe his nanny Grace? I mean, many of them don't even believe he had drug abuse problems, and that has been attested to by his own family!
I love reading your articles, Desiree, and I hope you continue to write more. Jessica is right--fan sites have monopolized the internet with their asinine rants about Saint Michael being brought down by greedy extortionists. It's important to have another viewpoint available for people who want to know the truth.
If you're interested in increasing your visibility online, you might want to consider re-posting some of your entries into a wordpress account. Back when I used wordpress, I received TONS of hits through google searches. Also, I wonder if there is a way to contact Ray Chandler? He could probably provide you with some fresh information for future articles.
I think that is a really good idea, Frenchie, especially if Desiree is planning on leaving her articles on the web if and when she decides she has written enough.
Desiree, you should do it!
I wonder if Ray Chandler would still be open to even talking about the whole 1993 thing, since his brother died and all. He may wnt to just walk away from the whole thing. Mike's world is crazy.
Jessica and to all:
The truth hurts and the 'fans' cannot and will not tolerate anything else other than the fact that their icon, Michael Jackson, was a pure saint; there's not way in hell that he could be gay, a pedophile, and a child molester. Anyone who feels differently is labeled as a hater or psycho. They always have their hands over their ears and their hands over their eyes...Hear no evil, see no evil is their mantra! lol
Desiree:
I can only imagine the complete frustration that you've had to deal with since writing this blog. While I am not a writer by no means, I believe you put your heart, sweat, and tears into this blog and was very fair in portraying your facts and view points about MJ and his tragic life. I know that you relayed to us that you weren't much interested in doing the blog anymore, and I understand that...But don't you dare think that what you have done thus far was for nothing at all. Of course, it would mean a lot more if more of those who read the blog gave their input, but I will say this; you have already made a difference in the ones who have stuck around and read/comment regularly. That has to mean something? I think you're personally cutting yourself short...You've made a difference MORE than you think! To hell with the fans who's heads are so thick that to have any shred of reasonable logic penetrate it would cause whatever brain cells they have left to turn into complete mush. It really shows the immaturity and intelligence on their part, not yours...It's their loss. People like that are very hard to change, and usually IF the change finally does come to them, the outcome most likely is regret. If the fans do retort to suicides when the truth reveals, and IT WILL reveal; maybe later this year, next year, or 5 or 10 years from now, it will be something that you have no control over. You tried to inform but to no avail they refused to listen. Remember, MJ had people in his life who tried to warn him of the impending doom and tragedy in his life, and did he listen?? We all know to well how it ended...Well his 'reluctant' fans are living the same fate...When the truth is finally out, a lot them will be devastated.
I understand if you feel that's it's time to call it a day, but remember there were and still ARE people out there who want to know the truth about the mysterious Michael Jackson, and if it means having to provide them with some hard to face facts about their idol and bringing them to reality, then I think that your blog and all that you've put into makes you a better person for having done it.
Although the choice is yours, don't give up; I think that would be a big mistake that you might regret one day...Keep sticking it out. While you may think differently, SOMEONE is out there listening to what you have to say, more than you think Desiree.
YOU ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE NORM!
Desiree:
I agree with Frenchie and Jessica; contacting Ray Chandler don't sound like such a bad idea at all. I'm half way through the All That Glitters Book, and I can't put it down! I think his writing a book was important to get the whole complete story our there...But your blog and the possibility of having him to endorse it is an awesome idea. Especially since there are people out there who are very interested in seeking the truth about MJ and having your blog is something concrete that they have access to. I have to even wonder, if Ray Chandler himself has seen/read your blog?? I personally think that he would be very intrigued by what you have come up with thus far. What do you think?
I agree with Lady C. I think that many people want to know the truth about Mike so having this blog as an alternative to the MJ fansites is key. They will never ever show the circumstanial evidence that raises the suspicion that he did in fact molest boys. They will believe the sources that they want to believe. Remember when Len used to comment, and she talked about her "mouthpiece" in the music industry having lots of information about Mike's boy issues? The fans would probably scoff at her source and cast them aside, even though this person might, and probably does, have info about him being a child molester. They will not listen; everyone is a liar in their eyes. Just look at how Lynette was trying to say that the couple on then train were not credible, but then Desiree showed the article about the Washington DC awards ceremony on Thursday March 5. The date clearly showed that not only was it NOT on the date 3-7-1992 that the couple say the saw him, but the ceremony was held in a location only 12 hrs away from Chicago, where the couple said they were traveling from! So basically their credibility is solid. The FBI most likely could not pursue the information for too long since they did not have a complaining witness or the name of the boy tha thte couple saw. Law enforcement gets many leads that are good but ultimately lead to dead ends. At any rate, that is the kind of thinking that people are looking for when they search about his molestation cases; they just want the facts and not the "asinine rants" as Frenchie said, from hardcore fanatics.
Lady C,
Have you read Ray Chandler's rebuttal to Mary Fischer's article? I know he briefly mentions it in his book, but if you haven't read it here's a link.
http://www.mjfacts.info/gq-magazine-rebuttal.php
Here's the one about Geraldine Hughes's dumb book
http://www.mjfacts.info/redemption---sloppy-work.php
The phone transcripts of Evan Chandler and David Schwartz are also on this site
http://www.mjfacts.info/transcript.php
Jessica:
No I have not looked at those links, but I certainly will. I did read something not to long ago about Geraldine Hughes' book...It went to say that her book had a lot of 'holes' in it and half truth. She like, the fans, couldn't put 2 and 2 together and made everything sound like MJ was in the right.
I'm in the middle of All That Glitters, and I'm at the part where Evan is trying to get the custody contract reversed in regards to what the child psychiatrist, Dr. Abrams, said about Jordy being 'at risk' if he continues to stay with his mother June. That June woman is something else!...She's just as bad as Lisbeth Barnes. You know I thought of something when I was reading earlier, and I believe MJ really thought he was tough shit; someone not to be reckoned with. I mean he was always fascinated with the mafia for some reason and their 'muscle' potential. I think that his involvement with Anthony Pellicano gave him a power rush and made him feel invincible in a sick sense. The man was very strange in a twisted kind of way. He comes across to me as someone who's really tormented and struggling inside to know who he is with all his personality changes and mannerisms...He definitely had a dark and ugly side to him. I can only imagine the pain and frustration that Evan was feeling during all of this. I'm looking forward to finishing the rest of the book.
I even read somewhere online that MJ's ex-PR person, Raymone Baine, even thought that Raymond Chandler's book had some strong truths to it??? I was kind of surprised to hear that, especially since I thought she was against all the charges against MJ and his accusers.
Jessica:
I read Chandler's rebuttal to Fischer's article, and it raises some eye brows as to what Fischer said, or should I say, what she didn't say. The bottom line is that MJ did not stand a chance of winning the civil suit because like Fields said, "it was a very weak case". Cochran's reasons for not going to trial are ridiculous! He too, knew that they wouldn't have won the case...There was too much damning evidence against Michael and there was no way around it except for to settle. 'Emotional fragility' my ass...MJ knew he was screwed and his career/image was damaged tremendously. When a person accuses you of wrong doing and you claim innocence, you stand up and fight your accusers, not pay them off...MJ failed to do this not only once, twice, but THREE times...Smells like guilt to me. If MJ called himself trying to look innocent he made himself look guilty in the process and that's because he was. His shelling out money didn't put out the fire; it only dampened it...The 1994 settlement was a huge mistake I'm sure MJ grew to really regret over the years as it haunted him all through out his career. Every time his name was mentioned in the media, it was always followed by him being accused of child molestation and choosing to settle out of court with his accusers; always had a negative stigma attached to it...There was no more, Michael Jackson, the recording artist of the number one selling album, Thriller... MJ was scared for his life and instead of owning up to what he knew he had done; the facts and evidence speaks for itself, he opted to take the easy was out. For him it may have been an easy way out, but he spent the remainder of his life paying dearly for it too.
You can't continue to purposely do wrong and not pay any kind of price for it.
Lady C,
I have never heard about Raymone Bain saying that ATG had some strong points! That is interesting if true. She's a smart woman so she could appreciate an argument with good points. If you ever find a link or a direct quote, paste it here.
The settlement was a huge admission of guilt, and the fans argue that he was forced to settle. But little do they know, an insurance agency will not settle claims based on criminal conduct, especially insurance companies in California. Why would Mike pay $15.3 million to Jordie Chandler alone if all of this was a lie? As you said, anyone falsely accused would say hell no. Look at Kobe Bryant, he didn't let that woman drag him through the mud, he fought, and he won; she was a liar and it was exposed. Mike could have easily did the same thing with the Chandlers. His own legal team said the had to "silence" Jordie somehow to avoid fighting the criminal and the civil case, all of this happening during the month between his body search and penis photos were taken, and the announcement of the settlement in late January of 1994. Mike was petrified because Jordie did in fact give a very detailed description (that the 2005 prosecutors wanted to bring in alongside the photos) of his penis.
I always think that it would be "over-egging the pudding" for Evan Chandler to claim that they could give a description of his penis if they were lying. That in itself tells me, at least, that they had hardcore evidence. As Desiree pointed out in this post, the Chandlers were even saying that Brett Barnes should get a medical exam to support their claims. Serious stuff.
Funny thing about Geraldine Hughes, she claims in her poorly written book that she met Jordie in Barry Rothman's office on two occasions, saying that he was playing with toys, and that he was a sweet boy. But when you listen to the audio of the Gardner interview, there is no way that Jordie would be playing with toys because he sounded far too intelligent and he was 13 years old. But the biggest thing is that later in her book, she describes Jordie as a "white boy"! Anyone who has seen Jordie knows he isn't white or white looking. This fact, among others, totally kills her credibility; if you say you met him why would you get his race wrong? I think she was lying. She is a MJ fan after all.
Jessica:
I totally agree 100% of what you said. Makes me wonder, when he and LMP were doing the interview with Diane Sawyer, what was going through LMP's little pretty head? I'm sure the interview was not a very comfortable thing for her, and I'm sure she's had to have asked herself the same questions that Sawyer was asking. LMP having two young children of her own at the time had to be concerned to some degree although she doesn't admit it...Seeing your husband who is a grown man continuously romping around with little boys has got to be disturbing; I don't care who you are. Another funny thought that I had, was how young LMP was when Michael first showed interest in her...She was about 7 years old and he was 17...Sound familiar?? The only difference was that she was a female.
I think that if Michael had gotten his way with the Chandlers and there was no talks about lawsuits or settlements, I believe that the Chandlers, especially Jordy and June, would have been Michael's "family"...None of the marriage shams would have taken place; there would be no need to; he would've had everything he needed with Jordy and Brett would have been his 'boy toy' on the side. At least that's what I think, since it seems as if MJ was trying very hard to play Jordy and Brett against each other to get sex out of them. As for the other special friends that Michael had; he only "flirted" with them; flirted not in the sense that you and I know it to be, as the sexual connection was still there, but not as intense...He wouldn't go as far with them as the other two.
His entire life was very sad. When MJ was at the top of his game many years ago, people would always say that they wished they could be like him, have all the money and fame like him, etc., but when you really look at it, looking back over his life,it was actually something that you didn't want any part of...You might say to yourself, "His life was tragic from the start, and I'm grateful to have not been him".
Of course, there were some outside factors that influenced that,such as his parents, and for that as a child he had no control over. However; as he became an adult and was able to make adult-making decisions about his life, career, etc., he knew better and that's when responsibility should have kicked in. A lot of people will say, Oh,well he was abused as a child and never had any kind of childhood... Well the mater of the fact is, Michael Jackson was not/is not the only person on this entire earth who was terribly abused by his parents and had their childhood taken away...It happens every day. Child abuse and lack of childhood are not excuses for free reign to be irresponsible and destroy other people's lives. Period. A serial killer isn't allow to go free just because they had a terrible and abusive childhood? A lot of them most likely have been abused as children and came from a broken home.
It's sad about MJ's up bringing, but I can't buy into that anymore. In equivalent to his talented work as an artist, people should also not forget that he was human with many flaws; some of which are not too pretty.
Lady C,
I don't know about Lisa. I mean I believe she was sincere when she said that she never got any indication about Mike being a molester. I believe her. I do however beleive that she thought he needed to get it together with all the little boys. I'm a strong skeptic about the LMP parts in JRT's book, but I do believe that she wanted him to stop being seen with them for his image's sake. However, I also think that Lisa, when she was "badmouthing" Mike in all those interviews, realized the timing of them being together was suspicious. Bob Jones said that Mike ran a heartless scam on her, and I believe Bob. I always say this but if he had never gotten exposed with the Chandler scandal, he would have never married, and you see it this way too. It is interesting isn't it about the age she was when he met her, and he always seemed to mention that she was so young and he had been liking her etc, etc. Clearly he was fixated on age, typical pedo mentality.
You mention that Brett and Jordie were special in "that way" with Mike, and I see a lot of correlation between a few of his special friends. I think Mike, with all pedophiles, was particular. Brett, Jordie, Jimmy, and Jonathan all seemed gentle and soft-spoken, and easily manipulated. I think these boys were the ones that Mike really got intense with. Some of the other boys I don't think Mike could "woo" as easily because they seemed more independent and strong willed like Mac and Corey Feldman and Manny Lewis. He was probably more successful with fanboys than with autonomous child actors, although I do believe that Mike was very interested in Mac Culkin. "Look at those lips" he would always say; who says that? He also had Omer Bhatti as a boytoy as well, selected and purchased thanks to his parents. Mike knew which boys would be easy to molest; he had pedo intuition. Jordie did say that Mike told him that he had never went as far with other boys as he was with him, but clearly as this post showed that wasn't the case. Also isn't it interesting how fast Mike "got the ball roling", so to speak, with Jordie? From the time of the first Neverland visit in late February to July when he was finally taken away by his father, that was a little over 5 months and he had already done so much with Jordie, to put it crudely. Makes me wonder about the other boys. But as for Brett and Wade, Mike was able to start sleeping in the bed with them on their 1st or 2nd night at Neverland, thanks to their mothers.
I have pity on Mike because of his upbringing and mistreatment, but I hate when people make excuses for their behavior because of it. Yes, I believe that you learn most of your defense mechanisms and morals and values during childhood, but I also think you can still replace bad ones with goods ones through counseling and associating with positive people. And Mike had the opportunity to change just like everyone else. But what incentive is there to change when he was constantly being told how great he was, how talented, how amazing? That only makes people complacent. If everyone was allowing him to do the whacky and crazy and probably criminal things, without so much as a reprimand, why would he stop? I think that is the sad reality for celebrities. Many celebrities are fragile narcissists that get their self worth from the outside world rather than having it come from within. They surround themselves with yes men, coupled with the elite status and exorbitant wealth, they end up with no boundaries or rules to reign them in, and that's why you have all of these celebrities dead at such a young age. Look at Mike, he always complained that he had no one that was truly interested in him as a person and that he was always lonely despite having the adulation of his fans. Actually, Mike seemed not to really like his fans all that much which is typical of most celebrities, haha for them! No one was there to be that person to keep him grounded. That's why he was able to get away with what he got away with. I have pity but I'm not going to excuse his crimes. I still think he wasn't a monster, though.
Désirée,
The name of your blog is “Desiree speaks... so listen”. And there are people out there listening, even if they not comment.
Maybe you are not aware of it, but I perceive a change in some of the fans mindset. The stupid ones, would never change. You can't use reasoning with fanatics, but I'm sure that even those fanatics deep inside feel their “faith” challenged. As Don Quixote said when the dogs blocked the road “They bark, Sancho, a sign that we're moving” lol. And they bark A LOT... almost in every forum.
I'm sure many realistic fans agree with our vision, but they would never tell it publicly. In one of those places, people who considers Michael less than a winged angel, is condemned to ostracism and public humiliation, lol.
I said in Jason's blog that one single page of the documents you have exposed, is more, reliable and revealing of Michael's life than hundreds of the sugar coated tell-alls, testimonies and memories his friends and associates are giving post-mortem. No other site has exposed them, and they are so explosive that I doubt they would have been discussed in the fansites. There are thousands of sites discussing MJ from different points of view, and no one has exposed them.
I'm sure many people in Michael's life is following you... I'm tempted to post a message for Jermaine, lol. He's writing a new panegyric on his brother and I want to ask him if Stacey Brown has some kind of extrasensory perception, since he was able to name (in 2005) the list of drugs MJ was taking.
Hey, your blog is so interesting to me that I dare to write in my clumsy English, when it's not even my fifth language... so, please, do not feel frustrated. I'm sure many people appreciate your efforts, even if they don't participate.
Jessica:
I agree with you, Michael was not a monster, just a human being. You make a good point that I didn't think of; it is hard to make a change in yourself when you constantly have people telling you how great,amazing and talented you are...It works against you. Too bad that he didn't seize the opportunity to change what he needed to better himself for Michael and no one else; things could have been so much different and better for him.
Although Michael was very faithful in publicly letting all of his fans know how much he loved and cared for them; I,too don't think that he was all that 'gun-ho' about them...He liked them from afar. I think he saw the whole 'fan fare' as imposing and/or trespassing. I know that's the price one pays for celebrity and fame, but after a good while, too much of it everywhere you go can be a nuisance and uninviting.
However, some positive things that I can say about Michael Jackson is that he was a person who was true to his craft; he loved it, took it seriously, and always seemed to take in consideration of what his fans wanted and liked. He also tried to stay "young at heart" which is a given for him. lol Sometimes in life as we get older, we have the tendency to forget what it's like to be a kid, and we loose that side of us; he tried to keep that alive. I also believe that he wanted to help others and make a difference in the world as a whole...It's just sad that very few people really didn't seem all that interested in helping him when he needed it, especially his family members. He was always gave to support them, financially any way, when he could have let them fend for themselves...He was very giving/caring to them. While he did have at least one good friend, Elizabeth Taylor, who cared enough to try and make an attempt to help him with his drug problem, he needed more. I think LMP wanted to help him too, but I don't think she really knew how to go about it, and I don't think she exactly knew what she was going up against when she married Michael Jackson; it had to be overwhelming for her. While I do believe he had some positive characteristics about him, it didn't make him a saint in any way. I do believe MJ wanted to have his heart in the right place, and perhaps to a lot of people he did, but there were a lot of personal issues that he never came to terms with; it carried over and tragically interfered with his life choices.
Wherever Michael is now, I hope that he's at peace with himself...Perhaps he couldn't have it here on earth, but maybe he's in a place where he's not being tormented anymore. I know that it may sound lame or pathetic to some people, especially when you've come to the conclusion about MJ and his secret life, but we ALL fall short; none of us are exempt. While our flaws come in different magnitudes and frequencies, we still stumble. I have heard many go as far as to say that his eternal soul is in Hell for what he's done...IDK, that's not my call to make as that's something for God to decide. We only see what's on the outside of a person, not the inside...We don't know what was in his heart right up to the moment when he died; only God knows that...I can only hope that he made peace with Him before it was too late.
Jessica, I enjoy reading your posts a lot. I hope if Desiree keeps on with the blog, we can still continue to exchange comments and feedback.
Desiree:
COME ON BACK, PEOPLE ARE LISTENING!!!!! (SMILE)
To Everyone:
Yes, thank you for the kind words. I was feeling down the other day. I am glad you all are enjoy it and I apologize for being neurotic.
No reply necessary to this.
I am working on another post. Stay tuned. :-)
Oh by the way, one of Michael's gay books, the gay photographer's muse is a young male who definitely fits Michael's type: olive skin, darker eyes, dark hair. He also has full lips.
He is exceedingly beautiful.
Two words about the book: Penises GALORE.
Susana:
You're absolutely right about the deep fanatics; their 'faith' has been completely stirred, and thanks to Desiree,it's something that they'll never admit publicly. Because they're now shaken, they won't have peace until they've come to a point where they're willing to be open-minded about certain issues,no matter how unpleasant, whereas Michael is concerned. Until they do, in the back of their mind that 'stirred faith' will always be nagging them.
I believe I saw on Amazon, that LaToya's new book, "Starting Over" will be coming out sometime on June 21st. Jermaine's book,"You
Are Not Alone: Through A Brother's Eyes", the one you're talking about, will be out on October 18th. There is also another book on Amazon,"Untouchable:The Strange Life and Tragic Death of Michael Jackson, by Randall Sullivan; it has not been released yet but should be coming out very soon.
I don't know if I'd take much stock into these books in retrospect to the reactions by some of MJ's people, i.e. Jermaine and LaToya; they haven't been all that credible lately although LaToya's last book was good...The latest trend with everyone seems to be to 'tell it and recant it'. As for Sullivan, IDK what his take on his book will be like; who knows it might be pretty good.
Jessica:
What I said earlier about Raymone Bain's take on Chandler's book was incorrect, so please scratch that. There was a person whose first/last name was spelled similar to hers, and they gave their comment about the book being very strong in truth.
However; like you said, Bain is a very strong woman and she probably does like a challenge...It makes you wonder though, if she ever thought there was any truth to the Chandler allegations since it was long before she got on the scene with MJ. It may sound strange, but I could picture her being an attorney on that particular case, representing the Chandler's. IDK, just my imagination. LOL
Lady C,
LOL it's okay about Raymone Bain. I saw her on Fox News talking about Murray on the 1st anniversy of Mike's death, saying Murray should go to jail etc. I do know she was sue for millions at the time of Mike's death, because he owed her like $40 mil for her services as his publicist. She claimed that Mike wouldn't pay his bills but rather use loans to go shopping, LOL. How irresponsible.
I wish Jermaine would include all of the stuff he said to Stacy Brown in his new book, but I doubt he will. LOL, "tell it and recant it" indeed. I personally don't think we will ever get any truths out of anyone witht he last name Jackson. Do you know what Latoya and Jermaine's books are about, specifically? I mean I know they are about Mike, but seeing Latoya's media comments I bet her book will have something to do with her brother being murdered. I wonder how Janet Jackson feels with the way her siblings get rich off of Mike's name. I mean you should have saw Latoya on Celebrity Apprentice, she mentioned Mike all the time. So pathetic.
Desiree,
That book sounds very very interesting. I bet Jacko's Wackos will hate it and try to distance Mike from it using some sort of intellectual voodoo. Mark my words.
Jessica:
I did a little searching to find a synopsis for the books by LaToya and Jermaine Jackson that are coming out this year, and I'll post it for anyone out there who might be interested...
Starting Over by LaToya Jackson:
La Toya Jackson was always closer to Michael than anyone knew. In this heartfelt memoir, she pays tribute to his tortured soul--revealing the intimate moments she shared with the deeply troubled pop legend. The first sibling to arrive at the hospital after Michael was rushed there, and the informant on his death certificate, La Toya noticed suspicious details and demanded a second autopsy. For the first time, she unveils shocking behind-the-scenes dealings that she believes led to her brother's death, and she provides unprecedented insight into the destruction of one of the most dynamic artist/performers in history. In an account sure to send shock waves around the globe, La Toya sheds new light on the dynamics of the Jackson family and the curtain of secrecy and intrigue that has surrounded her brother Michael, and the rest of the Jackson children, since they became stars in the '60s and '70s. She explains her estrangement from-- and gradual reconciliation with--one of America's most famous and close-knit families. Like Michael, La Toya experienced an upbringing that made her vulnerable to exploitation, and her own journey led to hell and back at the hands of her former manager and husband, Jack Gordon. Sharing with honesty and an open heart some of the most painful episodes of her life story, La Toya reveals how anyone--regardless of fame, fortune, or status--can be trapped in a cycle of abuse, and how she was able to find the courage to rebuild her shattered sense of self, her career, and her relationship with her family, and to finally break free. This tale will touch the hearts of the millions who are fans of the Jackson family's music as well as those who have ever shared a special relationship with a sibling. Not just the story of the world's most renowned family, this memoir will inspire anyone who feels as if their life has fallen apart and there's nowhere to go, unless they too can learn to truly "start over. . ."
Jermaine Jackson’s “You are Not Alone:
Michael: Through a Brother’s Eye” will be released this fall. Touchstone, an imprint of Simon & Schuster, promises a “faithful and loving portrait,” but one with “no subject off limits.” It won't be totally dedicated to uncovering secrets of the family and Michael Jackson as some sort of tell all, however; it will more than likely touch on many things delicately as Michael Jackson is a sensitive subject.
Well there you have it. I think the book by Jermaine that Susana was referring to in her last post was really the book called,"Legacy: Surviving the Best and the Worst," and that particular book was written with the help of Stacy Brown with the listing of MJ's drugs. However; that was supposed to have been released years ago about the time MJ was arrested and charged in 2003/2004, but was canceled. There's a good possibility that the new book that is scheduled for release later this year sounds as if it may be some what 'watered down'; not certain if the use of Stacy Brown, will be introduced in this book.
Jessica
(cont.)
As for Raymone Bain, I knew that she had filed a suit against MJ, but I don't think she was successful - I think I saw that somewhere online. The article said it had something to do with the contract that she signed when she signed on as his GM/publicist; I think she waived some of her rights away.
Mike's endless spending of money like there was no tomorrow explained a lot for his massive debt. The necessary spending was greatly out weighed by the unnecessary spending for sure. One of his financial managers said that he never had any real concept of money...He could have debt to massive proportions and he would still manage to live like a king. You're right, it is irresponsible.
Desiree:
Another bomb shell. Let's see how this one explodes! lol
Hey, not to pressure you, but have you given any thought as to what we said earlier about possibly contacting Ray Chandler to see if he would be interested at all in any discussion of your blog, future articles etc.? He may or may not. I'm not sure if he even knows that your blog exists...I bet if he ran across it, he would be interested in reading it and probably like us, be amazed with your research and how well you put it together...just something to think about.
Sorry y'all for the lengthy postings lately, I'll try to keep it shorter next time.
Those books sound really stupid LOL. Just a bunch of BS if you ask me. I believe Latoya was only telling the truth when she was away from her family, regardless if Jack Gordon was abusive. I find it hard to believe that Jack Gordon could have implanted all of those allegations in her head against Jor and Katherine, and the stuff about Mike. He wasn't even around, how would her know unless she told him? He called Mike a pederast way back in 1991, befor eanyone was even suspicious of his behavior with all those young boys. How would he have known to call him that; Latoya would have been the only one to know since she lived in Hayvenhurst with him.
Jermaine is scandalous, he should just stop. He was the one that in 1993 was quoted as saying, "I love my brother, but you have to wonder if there is any truth in this[the allegations]", but then he denies it. He made the "Word to the Badd" song about Mike in 1991 and then denied it was about Mike, saying that LA Reid and Babyface were the ones who came up with the content of the song. Then the partnership with Stacy Brown for the book "Legacy"; Stacy said he had him on tape saying the things he said about Mike just in case he denied it. Jermaine had said that Mike was using hardcore drugs, and that he kept women away like the plague and attracted gay men (seems like this allegation is true seeing that the cops found all those gay books and semen on his mattress and sheets LOL)...what a great book! Jermaine was on LKL in 2006 I think denying all of the information he provided Stacy and painted Stacy as liar and opportunist. He looked like a complete liar in my opinion. Funny enough, Stacy Brown wrote the book with Bob Jones which basically painted Mike in a horrible light, but last time I heard, Stacy was still friends with Rebbie. You'd think that none of the Jacksons would want anything to do with Stacy if he helped with the Bob Jones book, plus all ove rhis negative statements he said about Mike after his death. Makes me think that either Stacy has privately disavowed his statements or that Rebbie might agree with him and have no problem with his stance on her brother. I feel it's the latter.
Desiree I will search about that book and that young man :)
I recall someone saying here that Freddy Mercury said he´d like to fuck virgins like Michael, when he was dying...where´s the source?!
As for Jermaine´s and LaToya books, I don´t believe it will contain something outrageous. Not now that their brother is dead and they have to present a good image.
Cont:
About Stacy Brown, it seems he talked about the book with Jermaine, when asked by a fan:
http://muzikfactorytwo.blogspot.com/2011/05/stacy-brown-breaks-his-silence-about.html
Suzy,
I do not buy that from Stacy Brown at all. He is straight up lying, I'm sorry. He would obviuosly tell anything to a fan. I seen and heard Stacy Brown say Mike was a child molester out of his own mouth! So MuzikFactoryTwo is being lied to. Plus, the things that were in Jermaine's book were things that had been said before by Latoya, they were nothing unique. The fact that Jermaine said Mike used cocaine had been shown by the coke found in his underwear. So how is it that there manuscript was stolen and fabricated? He is not telling the truth, point blank period. He worked with Bob Jones on his own volition, although he did say on the stand that he was approached by Bob and that he was hesistant because he was friends with the Jacksons. But Stacy Brown actually spoke and said negative things about Mike, during the trial he was on MSNBC.
Dear Desiree,
I have been following your blog for a while now and I think you are a terrific writer!!! Please keep it up. :-)))
As far as the contents go, I am with you 100% and let me just say: please do not waste your time with answering these so-called MJ fans. They have their issues and, for some reason, they NEED MJ to be straight. I think your time would be better spent researching and writing more great articles.
As to myself: I still consider myself to be an MJ fan in the sense that I respect his craftsmanship and his artistry. But he was gay, I have no doubt about that. Probably a pedophile too and he should have gotten help. Period.
For a long time after he died, I was quite skeptical about what happenend with the boys and with the guys like BB, OB etc. but after your reading your posts, I do believe that something untoward happened with the boys and that he did have sexual contact with males.
Oddly enough, the one thing that COMPLETELY convinced me that he was gay is Brett Barnes's statement that he slept with MJ in MJ's bed when he was 19 years old. I think, at this point I started laughing out loud. What more proof do you need?
I am a female and I have many heterosexual guy friends ("just friends" but they are all in their 30s and 40s LOL) and the only reason they would sleep in bed with another heterosexual guy is when there are no other sleeping arrangements available (as in: broke on vacation and can't afford two rooms, so plastered they need to crash on a couch etc.). They will be uncomfortable and afterwards complain about the other guy's snoring. ;-) There is no way on earth two heterosexual guys would share a bed if there are plenty of other beds available (as I presume to have been the case at Neverland). I am a heterosexual female and I have shared a bed with girls for the same reasons stated above. I felt quite uncomfortable and I would be truly surprised if a girlfriend asked me to sleep in her bed if there were other beds available.
The only conceivable reason why two adult men would share one bed if there were plenty of other beds available is, to my mind, if they wanted to engage in sexual activity of one sort or another. Any other explanation is just plain ludicrous. It is the most likely explanation.
And, yes, sometimes the most likely explanation is most likely. Any halfway intelligent person would agree with me here.
Considering the boys: although this has been said many times before, please imagine all of things that happened with MJ with some other adult male (that was not a world-famous, teen-idol musician). Would I be concerned that something untoward was going on if some guy in his 30s insisted on HAVING to sleep in a bed with teenage boys (this does seem to have been an obsession for MJ) who were not related to him and with no other people present? Yes, I would. So would anybody who was halfway intelligent.
So, please don't be discouraged by any hostile comments and keep up the good work.
Greetings from Germany,
Angela
It is such a shame these people go back on what they say. He has consistently stated his low opinions on Michael Jackson: that Michael was gay, that he hated being black and was a racist, and that he was a pedophile. He has maintained since 2003 that he believed Michael to be a child molester.
This is certainly unscrupulous of Stacy Brown. I always thought he was an honest person, too.
But the reality is there really is no money to be made doing exposés. During the trial and Michael's woes, there was. But there is no money now.
The Jacksons are idiots in that they have consistently made statements that were questioning Michael's innocence. But Stacy Brown should realize there are TONS of articles where he is being truthful.
It's just like La Toya. All of these people will do anything to be a part of that gravy train. There is just no money in telling the real story. Stacy is a fool and a liar.
Lady C:
I don't think Ray Chandler can be contacted. I think he is probably done with the whole Jacko saga. His brother committed suicide and the entire family was ruined when Jacko came into their life.
I wouldn't contact him. I know he had over 500 pages worth of documents about the 1993 case on his website during 2004. I was 15 then and didn't care about Jacko, not to mention I did not have home internet access until I was a junior in high school. Nevertheless, he had offered these documents to be viewable in PDF form for anyone willing to pay $4.95. Drat!
I bet they were good. The Defense even wanted his documents, or they scared the bejesus out of Michael.
Angela, I didn´t know Brett Barnes actually stated that!!! OMG! A nineteen year old man is an ADULT! A straight man never would share a bed with other and Neverland had plenty of rooms!
Do you know about Jason Pfeiffer´s blog? Why don´t you write that there? lol
Jessica, I don´t buy it either. He´s acting like Stuart Backerman. First he implied Michael was gay, now he made a stupid excuse (anaesthesia...) lol
Again, can someone please explain me what I asked before? lol
P.S-Funny how right after Jason began with his blog many "insiders" and girlfriends" have appeared.
Angela:
I think you have a good point there. Brett Barnes sleeping in the bed with Michael Jackson is a fine indication of his proclivities for males. Straight men would not share the same bed when other beds are available.
Fans like to say that one of Michael's children was in the room while Brett was there or Brett just slept in the same bedroom as Jacko but Brett did not say this; he said 'shared a bed' and that the reason he stopped sharing a bed with Michael was because Michael had kids.
I would think by that explanation of Brett's, that he stopped due to the fact Michael had kids, he would not be in the bed(room) with Jacko even then.
This is why I know it was sexual, their sharing a bed was sexual.
Of course, then when you couple this with the semen stains (three different samples), it is 'explosive proof' to his homosexuality.
Straight men would not share a bed when other beds are available. Period.
I typically don't like to argue with fans because I find irrationality frustrating. Some things and beliefs are just irrational, like racism, sexism, or Jacko being innocent (LOL, yes, that is a biggie!). I have noticed that irrational people, when confronted with their own irrationality, become hostile and like to attack in whatever way. Of course, all of this is in lieu of giving an actual rebuttal or proofs of their viewpoints. They also like to delete comments or threads or posts when they are losing.
So, Angela, it was not even the semen staining that convinced you? That definitely convinced me! There was 3 different flavors!
Suzy:
I don't know where the Freddie Mercury quote is from. That's the first I have heard of it.
Yes, Suzy, Brett did say he slept in the same bed as Michael until he was 19. It is in this blog post; I pasted his testimony.
That is a man, not a child.
Suzy:
That fans are only mentioning girlfriends and pretending to be insiders because Jason Pfeiffer has a blog tells me that it is just made up.
There hasn't been ANY girlfriends at all. He had no girlfriends; he liked males.
Where were they when Jason first came out? Where were they when Michael was on trial? Where were they in 1993?
The semen stains should have been enough to prove his being gay but they will never be able to come to grips with it.
What I don't understand is why they insist on lying about being insiders; it is seriously dumb. They should realize that mentioning girlfriends does not change the fact that Michael and Jason engaged in sexual activity.
I hope they will get over it.
Desiree, he stated that on camera?
About the "girlfriends" there were one, ShinyDiamond, who was even following Jason...a true girlfriend never would do that, follow a man who supposedly was lying about her own ex-boyfriend! Someone said to her that exactly words and guess what! She stopped to follow him! xD
Need I say that the fans believed them?!
Suzy:
Brett Barnes stated that on the stand in court in 2005; I pasted it in the blog post:
9 Q. So you stayed in the room with Michael
10 Jackson when you were 18 years old?
11 A. Yeah.
12 Q. You’re 22 now?
13 A. 23. 23.
14 Q. So you were 19 years old?
15 A. Yeah, I guess.
16 Q. Did you share a bed with him at that time?
17 A. Yeah, I did.
I've never posted a comment before so here I go. I found your blogpost by coiencedence.After reading Michael Jackson:Unauthorized,very interesting and informative book btw. Could'nt put it down. I googled images of Brett Barnes as an adult and your blog appeared under his photo. Reading as much as I can about the testimony,the evidence and the court docs you've presented in your post it all started to make alot of sense to me. Your blogpost proved what I had suspected, that michael jackson was indeed a pedophile and guilty of child molestation.He should have been punished for his crime but never was.Your doing excellent research. I hope you keep it up.I find the your research insightful and interesting.
I used to love michael jackson when I was a child.I wanted to believe he was innocent and all the stories about him were lies and that they are just being mean to him. Trying to bring him down for being a public freak.I don't hate him now, just not a huge fan anymore.I think it is best to just love a celebrity's work rather than be in love with the celebrity cause they will always let you down with their behavior.
When "Living with Michael Jackson" first aired I wondered where did the perky happy go-lucky pop star, we all fell in love with, dissappeared to and why left in his place is a weird, delosional, and lonely person. My gut feeling was telling me this man appears to be mentally imbalanced.
Befor he died I had my doubts about his "pure and innocent" relationships with children. And your blogs confirmed my suspicions.Why would a grown man want to share his bed with unrelated pubescent boys? As famous as he is he could of had any desirable woman on the planet but instead chose little boys over women as his bedmates? That was because he was never interested in females.
Suzy,
IMHO, muzikfactory2's fan blog "scoop" by Stacy Brown was poorly written by someone else -- especially when it's compared to Brown's writings published by a reputable newspaper:
"Whether you agree with Mr. King or not (I, too, believe that Michael got away with child molestation), one important fact omitted from the congressman's tirade was that the eccentric pop star was never convicted of any crime."
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/a-day-for-fans-critics-alike-to-celebrate-1.108087?localLinksEnabled=false#axzz1NK29SLGm
Hey! It's PEDOREE and her ULGY FRIENDS, again!
Let's see...
"
MR. CHANDLER: Are you fucking Jordie up the ass'
MICHAEL: I never use that word * giggled *
MR CHANDLES: but, are you?
MICHAEL: ohh, no no no it's a COSMIC thing...
MR. CHANDLES: OK, Michael :)
"
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Please Pedoree, continue writing about VICTOR GUTIERREZ'S book, it's so funny! like you, FUCKING CLOWN!
Atte,
Caroline
LAB:
I am glad you've enjoyed my blog. :-)
My top Michael Jackson books would be:
1. "Michael Jackson: Unauthorized" by Christopher Anderson (he really digs very deep and is very informative with all bases covered);
2. "Michael Jackson was my lover" by Victor Gutierrez (sure, it is salacious and tawdry but it has Evan Chandler's chronology and other documents inside--very expensive and rare, though);
3. "Michael Jackson's Dangerous Liaisons" by Carl Toms (contains great analysis from an alleged pedophile--takes one to know one--and has tons of information I've never heard of);
4. "All That Glitters" by Ray Chandler (may be a bit biased in terms of the Chandlers but it is their side of the story);
5. "Be Careful Who You Love" by Diane Dimond (I actually found it to be quite even-handed)
Others include Maureen Orth's articles (very informative) and, really, any documents and transcripts you can get your hands on (most important). There are tons of news stories just through Google Archives that one can glean nuggets of telling info from.
LAB, you have certainly read the number one most informative book about Michael Jackson. I think it is a must read; it really is the main book that beings to open one's eyes.
The sleeping arrangements thing is a no-brainer, and you hit the nail on the head. I also tried to understand why a megastar would call himself straight and have access to the world's most beautiful women and yet insist on sleeping with boys.
I think all of it comes down to common sense and the most likely explanations being most likely: he was uninterested in women, just like you said.
What I do not understand is what is making the fans not see the light, so to speak? Is it his music, his dancing? Is it his being black? There has to be something that is keeping them from seeing the reality of his behavior. As you can tell by the previous comments, they do not like to engage in legitimate discussion, nor do they answer questions.
Thank you for leaving a comment. I enjoy the back-and-forth with the readers.
Rebekah:
So, you think that that is not Stacy Brown? I think it sounded like him. It may be conversational in tone but I think it's him.
All I know is that he has turncoated and is full of shit.
Caroline:
Michael Jackson did not answer the question because something was preventing him from being able to do so. Probably because he already was engaging in anal sex with males.
Evan Chandler stated in his phone conversations that he was liberal and would not have cared if Jordie was with Michael Jackson, as long as there was openness and honesty.
http://www.mjfacts.info/transcript.php
It doesn't matter if you don't think it is the proper stance of a parent; Evan just was not concerned if his son was gay and gay with this friend, Michael Jackson.
That piece of the chronology has nothing to do with Victor Gutierrez. Gutierrez is shady, definitely, but his book is solid.
And, Caroline? Please stop showing your ass. Try to offer a legitimate rebuttal to the entire piece, next time. If this blog content bothers you so, by all means, read elsewhere. There are tons of vindication blogs out there to enjoy.
I am certain you will dislike my upcoming posts on Michael's gay books.
Well now, this sounds quite familiar...
"Hardcore CWS (Celebrity Worship Syndrome) sufferers, are solitary, impulsive, anti-social and troublesome, with insensitive traits."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-176598/Do-worship-celebs.html
Desiree:
Brett also had confirmation from his sister, who said that Brett always slept with MJ; as a matter of fact, he INSISTED on it!
Desiree:
I did a little looking around online and found a little tidbit information about two of the many books the authorities seized from NL in 2003, "Chop Suey Club" by Bruce Weber and "Poo-Chi" by Mayumi Lake.
Chop Suey Club is a photographic masterpiece that is considered a 'cornerstone classic' for the avid male photography collector. Peter Johnson who was a teenage wrestler, 17 years old at the time, modeled for various ads including Calvin Klein and Ambercrombie & Fitch that were shot by Weber. Johnson who was a photograph favorite of Weber, has many frontal nude pictures throughout the Chop Suey Club Book, and is rather hunky. It also contains photos of other hunky males as well.
The book, which is no longer in publication, can still be bought on Amazon or a few other online book shops for a rather expensive price.
Poo-Chi is a very interesting piece, I must say. LOL To put it in a nutshell, it's a photo essay that contains various photos of human body parts (knees and under arms) that are 'staged' to look like the female groin/genitalia. The images in this book are not what they at first appear to be.. You have to look again, and closely. The 'deception' is enhanced by a wide array of 'poses';dressed with crochet, lace, embroidery, fake fur to take on a diverting, playful look. But underneath the soft and feminine drapes nestle the dark hairs and folds of flesh that give Lake's work a decidedly unsettling edge. As with all illusion, there is more here than meets the eye: the viewer is drawn time and again to take another, deeper look. Wow, that's a different spin on porno photography. LOL But I have to give it to Lake, her art is very unique.
http://news.3yen.com/2005-01-07/mayumis-poo-chi-porn-the-case-against-michael-jackson
Jacko also had a copy of "Pimps Up, Ho's Down" that they seized. While I've never seen this movie before, it may explain Michael's behavior in "bullying" Jordan Chandler. It may have served as some kind of guide if you will, to MJ to teach him how to 'muscle' his special friends, Jordan and Brett in particular. Like how a pimp intimidates his prostitutes, he preys on those who are "damaged" emotionally, physically, and mentally to exploit them. I think that MJ felt this way towards his 'toy boy collection' in a sick perverted kind of way.
I guess anything goes in the World of Wacko Jacko! lol
Desiree:
I just had another thought in regards to the Lake's book...Perhaps there's a connection with Lake's Poo-Chi and MJ's likeness of Mac Culkin's lips??? It may sound strange, but you never know...lol
Chop Suey Club, with it's filling of 'beef cakes', may also explain MJ's attraction for young adult males.
Had an aha! moment...perhaps Poor Caroline is one of the wackos working for Klein...the 'Mad Doc' needs to give her some Demerol to chill her out! lol
Desiree,
I think it was the combination of the semen stains and the fact that a guy admitted he was more or less regularly sleeping in the bed with MJ. There are not many explanations for that apart from the obvious. ;-)
Again, you can argue your way around this (as some fans have, I am sure) by saying, well, maybe they jerked off in the bed by themselves when MJ was out of the room.
But honestly, what sort of a person would do that???? And there were three different stains plus MJ's own so either he had three completely crazy friends who busted his bedroom lock on a number of occasions or he was gay. What is more probable?
But really, nobody can get around the fact that Brett was in bed with him. Sure, they were old "buddies" and maybe had some catching up to do when they hadn't seen each other in a while. But straight guys do this during the day and wouldn't dream of snuggling up to each other at night. Plus the fact that a combination like this, older powerful man plus young man, is a strong indicator of a certain type of homosexual relationship which I have seen many times in real life.
This type of relationship is not a loving relationship based on mutual understanding and respect for your partner, it is just about sex.
I feel sorry for MJ in this respect because I believe he was inable to have a lasting adult romantic relationship. I would have liked that for him, no matter whether it was with a woman or with a man but I think he may have been too damaged (damaged in the sense of psychologically scarred) from certain childhood experiences.
I still think he is a great artist though and I respect him for that. So, anyone who comes to this blog can see that we are certainly not haters. We are just curious and curiosity never killed any cats. ;-)
Oh, and an afterthought: thankfully MJ never commented on the fact that he had 19- to 20- year olds in his bed as well. That whole "it's not sexual, it's all innocent, you only think sexual because your minds are conditioned blabla" would not have come across well here at all.
Again, try to imagine something like this happening with a personal friend who told you about such sleeping arrangements he had and then said "but nothing happened". LOL. You would go "YEEEEAH right, nothing happened, sure" and laugh your ass off.
Wouldn't you?
Angela:
It's nice to hear from others who find Desiree's blog enlightening...Compared to all the other MJ websites out there, I guess you could say hers is the "minority". lol She does an awesome job of getting 'concrete' proof and facts through documents, articles, interviews, etc. It's pretty much straight forward.
Where you're coming from can be pretty much said the same here...We're not haters of MJ. I even think it's safe to say that maybe we were an MJ fan on some level at some point, but not to the extent of the rabid fans. Like with any situation where there are unknowns, questions, and doubts, one should keep an open mind to the possibilities; and that is exactly what Desiree and we the commentators are doing.
Desiree just keeps it real. Period.
BTW, Germany is a great place! I used to live there many years ago and loved it. However; I do still have family there. lol
Lady C,
you are absolutely right!!! I used to be a huge fan and went to see his BAD Tour in 1988 in Munich, Germany when I was 12. I had to bring my dad because my parents wouldn't let me go alone. And my dad was sooooo uncool because he just didn't get it at all - imagine a 50-year-old German lawyer in a suit in the middle of all the crazy fans. Haha.
I am still a fan in the sense that I enjoy MJ the artist and respect his artistry and craftsmanship. I do not respect MJ the private person because I believe that he had issues for which he definitely needed profesional help. He did not get such help and therefore people got hurt. The thing that upsets me is how stupid he must have thought we all were, expecting us to buy all this stuff about the kids and the marriages etc.
Oh yes, and after reading most of Desiree's excellent blog, I do believe that he molested boys. I found the Gardner interview with Jordie absolutely convincing - if, as has been alleged - Evan coached Jordie to say these things, I believe he would have gone about it quite differently and, for example, made sure Jordie got all the dates right. As the interview stands (and even though I haven't heard the audio of it), I find Jordie 100% believable and the way he describes MJ makes sense to me as well. It does read like an account of a real and cleverly thought-out (on MJ's part) case of child molestation, with grooming a particularly vulnerable child, separating him from his guardian figures and then manipulating him into sexual activity. Very sad, very tragic.
Michael Jackson probably did not think of himself as a molester (because he didn't abduct and rape people) but instead believed that he was in a 'relationship' with these kids. And that is what was twisted and what he should have dealt with.
He never hurt me personally though - on the contrary, he brought and continues to bring me much joy with his music and dancing.
But maybe I can separate the art from the artist although the molestation bugs me, I must admit. Homosexuality with consenting adults is fine, I have no problem with that whatsoever but with the boys it's a different thing because some of his art deals with the children and innocence issue and after knowing what we know now, it just doesn't sit well. But his best art, Thriller, Billie Jean etc., remains unaffected, I think.
Does that make sense to you?
Frenchie,
LMAO at the CWS article! The fans most surely fit into the category of CWS sufferers that exhibit antisocial emotions, and I suspect many would kill for Michael Jackson. Remember, Jason Pfeiffer go those death threats, one saying that they should shut him up "perhaps with a bullet". Cray-zay, LOL!
Angela,
I agree with you about Brett sleeping with Mike at 19. Mike would have been in his 40s at that time, so there is no question in my mind that that was sexual in nature, especially given the fact that all the other special friends stopped when they entered puberty. I suspect the others were like "okay I don't want to sleep with a grown ass man anymore, that's gay" LOL. Or maybe some wanted to stop because they didn't want to keep doing those masturbation games with Mike anymore. As kids they could of been thinking no harm done, but once puberty hits, they didn't want to continue things that could've been seen as gay. That's one of the main reasons male victims deny beign sexually molested; they don't want to be seen as gay. Brett, on the other hand, probably developed a "love" for Mike, or was in love with him, so that's why he continued. At any rate, guys don't share a bed platonically.
I think that the semen stains are the big tangible clue to him being gay, outside of all the other indicators. Fans try to either explain it away or just deny it outright. Neither of which makes any snese. The simplest answer is usually the best one, and all their rationalizations have far too many varibles in them to make them realistic explanations for all that cum the cops found.
Lady C,
Peter Johnson is a pretty hunky guy, and when I first saw some of the pics of him, I thought he was in his twenties, until I realized he was 16-17. He is totally Mike's type. I've seen another of his books, "Drew and Jimmy" that feature pics of two white males that go from adolescent to young adulthood, and although many of the pictures are clothed, some show the guys in their swimming trunks, wet with glistening muscles. It's not sexual per se, but you have to wonder why a single man would want to look at these pictures; the book is a reverent study of two boys growing up. It's hard to describe but I found it very strange why one would want this book, unless you had an interest in photography or in young males. Given Mike's history and his other books, it's an interest in males.
Jessica,
That people who call themselves "fans" are acting worst than Jason ever did. For God´s sake, it´s wishing death to someone!! They can be very nasty,you should read the comments on his blog!
It happened with Justin Bieber´s girlfriend, I read somewhere she received death threats from his very own fans! Here, it´s a case of jealousy. Fans can be very crazy when they want.
Angela,
I get what you're saying. A person with any kind of rational intellect would have to know what made Michael Jackson "tick"....I'm sure that he didn't believe that his behavior with these boys was inappropriate, harmful or abusive in any way; he thought it was all done out of pure innocence. It was complete naivety on his part...For him, abuse would be seen to the equivalency of what was imposed on him by his father, Joe. Someone posted in this blog earlier that MJ had a bad temper and at times could be very abusive verbally, but he prided himself on the fact that because he wasn't 'physically' abusive to others like his father was to him, the verbal abuse was okay/justifiable.
As far as Micheal's preying on young boys vs. young adults, there's something very wrong with that. An adult, who has experienced many things and hopefully has the mature intellect to make wise rational decisions based on those experiences and considers the consequences of their outcome, is more capable of making adult decisions responsibly....whereas; a young child who lacks those qualities, cannot. Two consenting adult homosexuals would be able to to this. To prey on such young and immature minds is very deceptive, manipulating, and can have long-term damaging effects...and we're seeing that damage to many of MJ's 'special' friends several years later. Families have also been affected as well...It's flat out wrong. Not only that, but the emotional abuse and break down of their mind and spirit can GREATLY affect their well being, future decision making, relationships with others, and self esteem...it's not fair. The sad thing about it is, that the very same thing that MJ did to these young boys, is the very exact thing that was done to him, and we all saw what the outcome of that was; devastating. The viscous cycle continued. A shred of positivity that one can take of MJ's life, is that it should be something that we all can learn from. Life's experiences are not always presented in the best light; they can be good and bad, and no matter how hard or ugly the truth is, it still can be seen as a learning experience for people. The rabid fans cannot seem to separate the artist, Michael Jackson - The KOP, from, Michael Jackson - the man, the person....and the ironic thing about that was, that was individuality was something that Michael Jackson always wanted but couldn't get from the public/fans. He wanted to so much to been seen as a real person versus a famous a celebrity...and here you have his fans who still can't comprehend that. Perhaps they don't know Michael Jackson all that much like they thought they did??
I also agree that it is very disappointing of the fact that he tried to 'pull the wool over our eyes' so to speak...that he would go to great lengths to get the public to believe what he was saying was the truth versus what the public actually 'knew' to be true. In his mind he thought the public was so gullible and he tried to influence that mind set more with his lies and fake image...what Mr. Jackson didn't know, was that the public was a lot smarter than what he thought...so much to the point that he literally 'hid' himself from the world as a means to escape being 'exposed'. Aside from his secretive "extra curricular" activities, his complete weirdness and paranoia was similar to Howard Hughes who was also very bizarre, paranoid, and compulsive, but just on a much larger scale.
Realistic MJ Fan:
It's not only pathetic, but also sad at how the rabid MJ fans are acting. If MJ were here today, I don't think that he would want them to be threatening others, yet alone sending out death threats...According to the lyrics in some of this songs, their behavior goes against that...they can definitely attest to that! It's bad enough that we,the world, have to fight the war on terrorism, but to have an additional 'insult to injury', makes things more difficult to deal with.
Jessica:
As far as MJ's 'specialty' books, one can only imagine what what going on in that head of his. Like you said, there's only two good reasons as to why someone would be interested in having those books in their possession...and for Michael, it had nothing to do with photography. lol
Desiree:
I'm still trying to finish up reading, ATG. Question...Do you think that from what all you/we've discussed on the Chandler allegations, that if the case had actually gone to trial,the jury chosen would have been reluctant to send MJ to prison like the 2005 jury was? From what has been shown, some of the 2005 jurors were "reluctant" to put a celebrity behind bars, and instead chose to let them walk free. I do believe that the Chandler's had a very strong and tight case, and I believe the Defense felt the same way as well (their actions telling),but how would the jury feel? I mean it's possible that they could have had the exact same mind set as the 2005 jury...and IF that would have been the case , it would go to show you that celebrity and money can guarantee you freedom without a "price".
Realistic MJ Fan,
I don't even waste my time reading Jason's blog. I think he's a nice person and I beleive his story but I don't find any of that Klein stuff that interesting. Besides, I get annoyed with all the fans getting pissed off if someone thinks Mike wasn't a saint, and how they crazily pertend that they have "inside info" about women Mike had been with. Who is buying that BS? LOL. They have some nerve even coming onto his blog in the first place. I see now that he has stopped following Desiree's blog, sinc eall the fans were trying to use that as a way of showing he was somehow a bad person. Please! He always said that people are entitled to their own opinion, so Desiree could write what she wanted. But the fans were taking everything to far, I read that some were even going so far as to characterizes Jason's whole blog as talking about how he thought Mike was a molester! That's not even true. The thing is, they just can't stomach the HARD FACT that Mike had a gay affair. But if they would open their eyes, they would see that Mike was gay the whole time.
Angela:
I've mulled over this 'sleeping arrangements' deal and tried to think of it in terms of myself and a hypothetical female friend. Typically, women are allowed to get away with more sexual ambiguity than men. However, if I was staying with a friend and she said, "Desiree, come stay with me in my bed," and there were other comfortable beds available, I'm sorry, I would think this female friend wanted to do more than sleeping.
Of course, that could be entirely wrong; this hypothetical female friend may just want 'company' but it would still go through my mind. And it is a reasonable thought as a heterosexual person.
For straight men, there would be no way they would ever want to bunk together without feeling totally squeamish about it.
It is then when you couple the allegations of molestation from Ralph Chacon, the folks on the train, Jordie; Brett's sleeping patterns with Jacko as a young boy as attested to by his sister and mother; and that these sleeping patterns had persisted until age 19, that is when you realize that those 'sleepovers' were sexual. Period.
Brett and Michael were having sex during those times. I guarantee it. He stammered because he knows what they were up to. LMAO! You have to laugh out loud at his ridiculous testimony...
Angela, another reader linked a video download where you can hear a bit of the audio of Jordie Chandler's interview with Dr. Richard Gardner. It was a part of a Bashir documentary, which included Ray Chandler, Jordie's uncle.
http://www1273.megaupload.com/files/36bd14aecb4bbdd22f500f2a742dbb46/Michael%20Jackson's%20Secret%20World.zip
Jordie does not sound coached whatsoever; he is 100 percent believable. Many of Jacko's fans believe that he comes off 'too smart' in the interview but, as my sister said to me, he actually sounds a bit nerdy. All of the Chandler men are intelligent; Jordie obviously is as well.
The Brett-Michael sleepovers are something that the fans have refused to answer. I have asked them this question numerous times and have never gotten an answer; even Lynette above refused to answer.
And if they did answer, if they were reasonable, they would acknowledge how that looks: sexual.
I don't know... I think the semen stains are cut and dry. It takes a lot of voodoo to say the two different types of semen stains on Michael's bed and the semen-soiled underwear and sheets he kept from the third male was not sexual. It's just a lot of trickery one has to do (obviously, some of his loonies think it was 'saliva' from Prince and Blanket!).
To me, the simplest explanation is sexual contact with males. It's plain denial to say, "Michael's bedroom was like a hotel and that's how the stains could have gotten there." Yeah, it's possible, just like it's possible to get struck by lightning during a thunderstorm. However, it still does not change that it's rather remote.
Like I stated in those posts, it is when you look at everything holistically that the simplest explanation jumps right out at you. I honestly cannot see the logic behind some of their explanations for things. But I agree with you, Angela: the Brett sleepover thing is pretty self-explanatory.
Jacko's fans live in a constant state of denial and will not debate. They are absolutely vicious and hateful. It is quite pathetic really.
Lady C:
I do like to think I keep it real. ;-) Honestly, I think all of this Jacko molestation/gay stuff is very, very straightforward.
For this post, you have eyewitnesses with credible accounts (yes, this includes Ralph Chacon); you have this odd Vaseline thing between Brett and Michael mentioned in Evan Chandler's chronology which is just so damned weird it has got to be true; you have Lisbeth Barnes testimony and the Barnes' reaction to the Chacon account; you have these constant sleepovers; you have Brett saying he continued to sleep with Michael long after other boys stopped doing it...
What more do you need? It is SO SIMPLE: Michael Jackson and Brett Barnes had sex with one another, unfortunately since Brett was a young boy.
With regard to the 1993 case, I really don't know if Michael would have been put in jail. According to polls at the time, many people in the public believed in Jacko's innocence and bought the extortion angle. It wasn't until he settled that people felt differently. But he was still Michael Jackson.
We all know molestation cases are notoriously lacking in physical evidence. I believe that even if they had Jordie on the stand telling his story, it was still a a hit or miss. That's even with the photos of Michael's penis and Jordie's description.
It's because he was Michael Jackson! That is huge.
But ask yourself, really: given what everyone in the public knows about Michael--his moonwalking, the Jackson 5 days, Thriller--would you really want to put him in jail?
I can be honest with you, Lady C, and say I don't know if I could. Sure, he was a pedophilic homosexual and predated upon boys but I don't have ice-water in my veins. A US prison is the worst place to send someone, especially someone in need of psychological help, like Michael Jackson needed. Pedophiles need treatment, not jail time.
Then, when you couple it with the fact that Jordie Chandler himself said he was unharmed by the contact and hadn't seen anything wrong with it, I would really be hesitant to send Michael to jail.
I know this is an unpopular stance but I am just being honest.
Jessica:
I have no idea why they targeted Jason Pfeiffer's blog like that. But I personally think it is a good decision that he stopped following my blog. He stated he 'didn't know' about Michael either way.
His blog is not even tangential in content to mine. It is just a 'guilt by association' smear tactic. They already think his story is bullshit so linking him with my blog would allow people to really think he is nothing.
Of course, denial and ridicule do not ameliorate reality: they had a gay affair and there is no women around to refute him. And even if some mystery woman emerged, it still does not change the fact Michael had gay sexual contact with Jason Pfeiffer.
Brett Barnes responds to Desiree's blog:
"Thanks for the link Joanne but I'm kind of tired of people messaging me about stuff like this. I think I'm going to start blocking messages. I appreciate all the support from MJ fans but It would be nice to move on with my life. Yeah I read that blog and I really don't care what these people think because I know what's fact and I know what's fiction. I'm sure that there's all kinds of wild stories about me on the internet and I really don't waste my time with that. My family and I have defended Michael for the longest time and we still consider him to be a part of our family. I have already said what I had to say various times and I will no longer speak on this subject. But nevertheless, thanks for the love. It is greatly appreciated."
Brett, since you apparently read here, please check out this link:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/
You don't need to admit to the world what happened to you, but you should at least admit it to yourself.
Goodgirl, it´s really him?! How do you obtained that message?
Desiree,
the link doesn't work for me. ;-((((( It says the page cannot be found. Could you check it, please?
LOL I love how Brett didn't address a single thing that was said! Wow, that was not a denial, at all. He feels he has already said what he needs to say various times...so is that the reason HE WON'T ACTUALLY SAY THE POST WAS A LIE? He just said he knows wha tis fact and what is fiction but he never said WHICH was fact or fiction. Hilarious. The fans will take anything at face value won't they? And his "response" was not very good. He acted like he was so so upset that the media, etc were saying he was a victim when he testified, but he had never ever took any legal action. Now he is not taking legal action; so much for the idiotic fans' libel threats, LOL.
Desiree:
I must say that you've given me something to think about. I can see that it would be very hard to put someone of MJ's caliber behind bars, and I suppose that I would be hesitant to do that...BUT, if not prison, he still would have to be held accountable in some regard. Getting psychological help would be a start and maybe some kind of restraint prohibiting contact with any children would be another. Of course the US prison system is completely horrible, and while they're over populated, there are some, if not many, inmates that really have no business being there to begin with. May be Jackson was right when he said to Diane Sawyer in his interview that someone like that needs some kind of help. I guess the whole thing that chaps my hide, is the fact that so many children's lives and families have been greatly affected by Jackson's behavior and NO ONE was held accountable for anything. When I say no one, I also mean the 'pimping parents' as well; they're just as guilty as MJ as far as I'm concerned. My belief in a sense, is that society also let these kids down...Perhaps those who 'knew' of MJ's proclivities from the very beginning should have come forward instead of hiding it, IDK. I admit it would've put them in a very uncomfortable position and bad light to snitch on MJ, but keeping it secret only did more harm than good. At least if it had gotten out in the open, perhaps the treatment/healing process for MJ and his victims, that they so desperately needed, could've began. I think that it would be right to say that our country's justice system also needs to re-evaluate how to go about rehabilitating those of mental illness like MJ instead of throwing them behind bars; a different alternative. Now that's not say that a crime still hasn't been committed, but perhaps in some cases the consequence should fit the reason of the crime--and that should be determined by what the actual root of the problem was that led to the criminal behavior. IDK, Desiree...I understand what you're saying, and thinking about it you have a valid point. I guess I asked what I did is because in the US, that's the way it has always been; convicted of child molestation, you go to jail. But just because that's the way its always been, doesn't necessarily mean its right or the best thing. I just feel that justice wasn't done and several children got messed over.
I just see the whole thing with MJ's frequent history of 'dodging' the bullet; his many 'hush money' payouts, as saying in so-many words, "I'm guilty", not to mention the stories from various people taking on a consistent tone.
IDK, may be I completely missed the boat? LOL
Thanks for your honesty.
I can see all of the visitor origins and I one time had someone from a suburb of Melbourne coming from facebook. I thought perhaps that was Brett Barnes. For the record, that would mean that he'd been on my blog before.
At any rate, let's just face facts here: THAT WAS NOT A DENIAL. Brett absolutely knows what I wrote in this blog is 100 percent true.
I have time and time again linked to a website called statementanalysis.com. It is an interrogation and interviewing technique used to determine if someone is being deceptive. The proprietor of the site, Mark McClish, has decades of training with law enforcement, etc., holds seminars for law enforcement, and wrote a book on the subject, "I Know You Are Lying" where he discusses the technique.
I pasted an article he wrote on Michael Jackson in this post here:
http://desireespeakssolisten.blogspot.com/2010/10/find-michael-jacksons-lies.html
Long story short, according to the technique, which relies solely on statements, not body language, Brett Barnes is being deceptive in that statement pasted by goodgirl1978.
He knows I am telling the truth about his molestation. As Frenchie stated, he should admit it to himself; he owes the world nothing.
If the fans think this is some hole-in-one, they are on something. I think it's interesting that he did not say outright out, "That post is a lie." He could have said that but he didn't.
Because that would be a lie, and Brett knows it. Lying makes people uncomfortable and deceptive people simply want to remove themselves from the crosshairs.
I stand by my piece 100 percent. His previous denial had no impact on me before, and it definitely has not impact on me now.
Angela:
I have the video on my computer but it's way too big to send, even after several compressions. As a consolation, the Jordie segment was pretty small and I know that even if you want to hear his voice for yourself, trust me, he was believable.
I'm sorry; I would send it to you if I could. :-(
@Suzy
Yeah it's him. He's on facebook.
@Jessica
I was quite curious to see what he had to say, so I just sent him the link to get a response. Hell, I was surprised he even responded. But yeah, he talked about how he's recieving tons of messages from MJ fans and other people and how it's really starting to annoy him. He's at the point where he just doesn't care anymore. He's denied these allegations for the past two decades and yet his name still comes up when it comes to molestation and Michael Jackson, so he just told me he wouldnt waste his time because he's already said his peace.
Desiree:
Brett's refusal to say,"Your post is a lie", sounds familiar doesn't it? lol Remember how MJ, who was being accused of child molestation refused to say the four magic words,"I didn't do it". He gave every kind of response except for the obvious one..."I would never harm a child"..."Those allegations are false"...
Brett knows that you and everyone else here on this blog knows what really took place...he'll never admit it to himself, yet alone the public.
GoodGirl1978,
I'm surprised he responded to you as well. But I'm even more surprised how he responded. He did not deny it, and denying it would have taken all of two keystrokes.
His "denial" is not anything, as Frenchie points out, male survivors "deny" it all the time. Brett was a special special friend. There are witnesses. If Jordie is telling the truth, and I have no doubt that he is, than Brett's "denial" is a lie. If the people on the train and Ralph Chacon are telling the true, Brett's denial is a lie, since he was seen by all three of them. Brett couldn't even intelligently explain why he was the only special friend that continued to SHARE A BED with Mike when he became a man. Why stutter and stammer on an easy question, unless you have something to hide?
Interesting, it´s like Liz Taylor. She was angry but never denied Michael´s homosexuality.
@Jessica
yeah I noticed he didn't deny it either, but then again, I didn't ask him any specific questions. I just sent him the link and that was it. He comes across as a pretty cool guy. I want to send him another message but I'm afraid he might think I'm some crazed stalker.
goodgirl1978,
Yep he didn't deny it. I don't think Brett, or any of these men, is a bad guy, I just think that he is not telling the truth. i think if he would just be honest about his relationship with Mike, the fans would kill themselves, because it would be further proof that their idol was gay, and they hate that (for some strange reason). All one has to do is look at his piss poor "denial" attempts on the stand: his inability to remember same dates like when he shared Mike's bed, his stuttering and stammering at simple straightforward questions, his "doth protest to much" attitude that he was "really, really" not happy about what was being said about him. It's in black and white really.
But to be honest, I do think he probably doesn't want another message about this blog, whether from a fan or a "hater", LOL.
Desiree:
How close are you to coming out with the post about the books on MJ? I can't wait to read it. lol I was looking at the stack of books that you have on him, and I pretty much have what you have except for three of them; Dangerous Liaisons, MJ Was My Lover, and Be Careful Who You Love. MJWML sounds like it would be interesting to read and I know that Amazon has it, but I can see myself plunking down that kind of cash for a book. I think two books that I have that are my favorites are: MJ Unauthorized by Andersen and Man Behind The Mask by Jones/Brown.
Andersen gets to the 'nitty gritty' and doesn't leave any thing out. He describes a side of Michael Jackson in an entirely different light;one that's different from what the public saw--exposing his constant lies, manipulations, sexual perversion and sociopathic demeanor...Hell to put it just right, MJ was a down right asshole! LOL When you said how good of a read it was, I took your advice and bought it; glad I did. As a matter of fact, I wished I had known about it earlier and I would have saved the twenty bucks that I spent on RJT bio on Michael...RJT's book was a complete waste!
Jones' book juicy as well, IMO. I think he was/is the only person thus far who was an insider, that was bold enough to talk. Sure it could be said that he had an "axe to grind" with MJ, and maybe things may have been different if he hadn't been terminated, but the fact is he exposed MJ while he was very much alive. With all the circumstantial evidence and people's stories sounding similar, I think for the most part, much of what Jones said was true. Considering the fact that he no longer worked for Mr. Jackson any more, I'm sure Jones felt he had nothing to lose.
Any way, I look forward to the next posting, LOL.
Sorry to burst your bubbles, goodgirl, but that's not the real Facebook of Brett Barnes. That's just the fan page. This is his real page: http://www.Facebook.com/people/Brett-Barnes/538127306
Susan/steve/Pauline, etc.:
Your link goes no where and she did get into contact with Brett Barnes, hence the ridiculous denial on his part (because he knows it's true).
I saw from my webcounter a visitor from Box Hill, a suburb of Melbourne, where Brett Barnes lives, apparently, via a Facebook link. I have the evidence to show he was on the site.
How would you even know which Facebook she got the message from? She did not give a link.
Here's a suggestion: get some fresh air, stop stalking this blog, and get a life, you psycho.
I just sent him another message asking him specific questions about Jordie chandler, MJ, the case, etc..Hopefully he will respond...Let's wait and see.
Brett has a fan page? lol That's random.
goodgirl1978,
Not to be rude, but why do you think he would give a fan any straight answers, especially if he did indeed have a sexual relationship with Michael Jackson and in the event that Jordie Chandler is telling the truth? I don't understand why he would tell a fan anything for that matter, outside of the the stock "MJ was innocent" blah blah.
Frenchie, fans will attach to any person that was "close" to Mike if this person says what they want to hear about Mike eg, he was innocent, he was heterosexual, he was a gift from God, he was murdered by racist/jealous record execs, etc. I mean now some fans like Jason Pfeiffer (emphasis on some...definitely not all). They followed Shana Mangatal and some of the other liars, LOL. Mike is Jesus and anyone "close" to him that says what they like is an apostle. Tom Mesereau has moved close to saint status, LOL.
@frenchie
Jimmy Safechuck also has a fan page and so does Omer Bhatti.
You found 1 doc, bravo, that according to you should raise MORE THAN AN EYEBROW ?? Strange noises, if you think that's a valid statement, you're no good researcher girl...
And do you really think it's smart to refere to Diane Dimond as a good honerable journalist?
It's just a disgrace, and don't forget she got fired for it! It's an indication that your sources aren't reliable...
Marcus:
If you can fisk through this post and show that that document and everything else within is fallacious and inaccurate, by all means, please prove it.
Otherwise, I think this is one very strongly supported piece.
Diane Dimond has never been sued for anything she has written about Jacko. Seeing that she has spoken to many sources--more so than myself or any Jacko fan--I consider her to be reliable.
How stupid is it to believe that everyone who has said something negative about Michael Jackson is a liar or unscrupulous? How ridiculous can you be?
Furthermore, I don't even refer to Diane Dimond nearly as much as I could. I rely heavily on news stories, court documents, and transcripts first and foremost.
Again, if you can find any information that refutes the breadth of research in this entry, by all means, please link to your information. Otherwise, you are simply wasting my time with typical dense fan bullshit.
You refute me. I have already written my say above.
Marcus,
Instead of attacking the author of the post, why don't try to refute all evidence she has found? Point by point, line by line, word by word?
That's what you Jacko fans always do: you absolutely cannot refute anything that is written--with any tangible documents, news stories, links, etc-- so instead to attack the character of the messenger. Then you will act as if anything else said by this person is completely wrong or untrue because you now believe them to be bad or unscrupulous.
Instead of wasting your time writing pointless half-assed comments that offer nothing in rebuttal, why don't you truly look at Michael Jackson's utterly suspicious and most likely criminal behavior, without all of your fan bias.
Everyone isn't a liar, Marcus. That is not possible.
By the way, linking to Charles Thomson's OPINION PIECE is a non-starter. But you probably didn't know that...because you're a fan, and you guys are dumb.
I'm sorry, but how is; assuming that everyone should ask questions and raise eyebrowns about a statement that one person makes a solid proof for the wrongdoing of MJ?
I don't get you taking opinions of for exampe LaToya and Diane, altough I concur they maybe involved (wich STILL doesn't make their opinion correct), and posting them as TRUTHS..?
DiDimond WAS fired because of her manipulating the newsfacts in favor of the prosecution, she WAS wrong about many things she said, how could you denie that?
For example, Diane Dimond appeared on Larry King Live days after Jackson's arrest and spoke repeatedly about a 'stack of love letters' the star had supposedly written to Gavin Arvizo.
"Does anyone here... know of the existence of these letters?" asked King.
"Absolutely," Dimond replied. "I do. I absolutely know of their existence!"
"Diane, have you read them?"
"No, I have not read them."
Dimond admitted that she'd never even seen the letters, let alone read them, but said she knew about them from "high law enforcement sources". But those love letters never materialized. When Dimond said she 'absolutely knew' of their existence she was basing her comments solely on the words of police sources. At best, the police sources were parroting the Arvizos' allegations in good faith. At worst, they'd concocted the story themselves to sully Jackson's name. Either way, the story went around the world with not a shred of evidence to support it.
I think the article from Charles Thomson is a very accurate one, without asuming or imposing interpretations.
I don't speak english, so excuse me for my mistakes.
And please, don't call me a blind fan, you dont know me. Don't generalize MJ-fans as dumb; because how could 100000000... people who have only in common the love for 1 entertainer be all dumb?
And please dont call ME dumb, I'm a member of Mensa.
"And please dont call ME dumb, I'm a member of Mensa."
Yeah right, dude. Please. Laughing my ass off at that one!
A member of Mensa would not blindly worship a celebrity, because they would understand the fallibility of human nature. They would not circumvent all logic and reason to support a man where there exist a large amount of circumstantial evidence that points to a very good reasonable suspicion he was guilty of child molestation.
You, my friend, are no genius and are just a Wacko Jacko fan that is blind because of your adoration for him. Wise up.
If you were as intelligent as you piss-poorly claim to be, you would be able to look at all evidence and at least come to the conclusion that you do not know, for it is impossible to prove something did not happen, and in this case, there is too much evidence to support that something untoward did occur. An intelligent person would not be able to ignore this evidence.
Tell me, O' Great Brainiac, why would the prosecution want to bring in pictures of Michael Jackson's penis and present them, along with Jordie's sworn description, to the jury and judge and the worldwide media, if they did not match? What would be the logical explanation for that? Tom Sneddon had a 30 year career with 4 loses total at that point, and he also was being accused of having a vendetta, so why would he make himself look bad?
How you answer is important, so don't fuck it up.
And Charles Thomson is only more credible than all the documents, new stories, and transcripts that are thoroughly presented on this blog because you agree with him. It's really that simple. A real Mensa member would be able to acknowledge his own bias.
You, sir, are operating at the left-side of the bell curve, where the idiots, imbeciles, and morons reside (all of these terms are clinical distinctions in old "Intelligence Quotient" lingo...you should know this if you are a true Mensa member).
You know what IS funny?
I never SAID I was a fan of MJ, you just assumed that because I'm sceptical about this blog and the people who just follow it blindly (because the blog says it has proof^o)...
Btw: jordie said MJ was circumcised but he was not, look at the autopsy.
What you're saying is not objectif, it's atacking me, not of what I say, but because of who you think I am, and it's not kind.
Stop going on about who MJ-fans are, and react to what I say:
The prosecution kept calling 'victims' of former molestations 5;
- 3 took the stand and said: MJ never touched us
- MJ tikled me, and extremely briefly brushed against his pants, what could have been an accident.
- 1 didn't show up, which was jordan chandler, who didn't speak to his parents for 11YEARS! because he hate his parents because of making him say that he was molested by MJ.
And HOW (plz tell me!) can you be held captive calling your relatives, going to stores and orthodonts, SPENDING 3000$..?
Gavin said the porn magazines shown by tom messereau where the EXACT ones that MJ showed him, and there where NO other porn magazines shown to him except from these... But the magazines in question where actually brought out 5months AFTER he was suposedly molested...
How could you agree with the prosecution then trying to plant fingerprints on other porn magazines?
Now GIVE ME AN ANSWER WITHOUT attacking me please!
And again, I am 18y, dutch, and a member of Mensa, so please stop trying to make me look dumb, hoping others will see a lack of credibility on me... :)
Marcus, boo, I do not have to make you look dumb. You are doing a swell job of that on your own.
You are not a member of Mensa, cut the crap. If you were, even if you are foreign, you'd know how to type in complete sentences and using complete thought. As you know, many Mensa members are polyglots and English is the lingua franca nowadays. So there is no excuse, you being Dutch especially, that you shouldn't be able to write in English. Are you aware that English and Dutch are both Germanic languages? So really, you should be able to have English comprehension.
Now you didn't answer my question, and I will not entertain your question until you answer mine. It's not looking good for you, Marcus.
By the way, you are a fan and you look really stupid (what a surprise) trying to deny it. Aside from your other telling comments, only a fan would say something like this:
"And please, don't call me a blind fan, you dont know me. Don't generalize MJ-fans as dumb; because how could 100000000... people who have only in common the love for 1 entertainer be all dumb?"
You are only eighteen years old. I think you should take some additional time and allow your frontal lobe to develop more; it's fully developed by 24 years. Your cognition and logic centers are still rather immature.
By the way, Marcus. Only a fan would put in this much effort in defending Michael Jackson. So you need not say you were a fan. It is implied in your actions and in your words. I think you also may have a selective memory in what you've written previously that shows you are nothing but a fan.
Tsk-tsk. Not too bright, are you?
If you read the blog completely and the people who comment on here, you'd be aware that most of us, if not all, used to be fans and then, after researching away from fan vindication sites, we started to put two and two together, and saw that Mike was not innocent after all. I know all the fan arguments because I used to make all the same arguments as a fan.
Your skepticism is based purely in your deep adoration for Michael Jackson. That is the root. And that, my friend, you cannot deny without making yourself look silly.
Now be a good boy and run along. Run along, you're boring me.
Marcus:
I deleted your last asinine comment. Why?
Because it is pointless for you to continue going back and forth unless you actually try to engage in conversation.
Jessica asked you a question at the get go and you have continued to not answer it. How dare you assume someone else will answer your question if you cannot first answer the one they asked of you?
That is stupid; you are NO Mensa member!
To repeat: Please explain why a veteran prosecutor with an amazing track record of wins would risk his reputation in front of the media and jury to introduce into evidence pictures of Jacko's penis and Jordie Chandler's description of them if they did not match?
Why would he do this?
Have you even read this post? I doubt you have. Like typical Jacko fans who come onto my blog, you spew a lot of baseless crap without having read damned thing I've written.
If you have evidence that refutes the evidence presented in this post or any post on this blog, by all means, link to the information.
Droning on about Gavin Arvizo is tiring. This post has nothing to do with Gavin Arvizo.
Either abide by the rules or go read at a vindication site where you can share with other fans how much you love Michael Jackson and how much you believe him to be honest.
There, you don't have to worry about anyone calling you stupid or disbelieving the notion you are a Mensa member, which, for the record, is laughable.
What I do not understand is why fans come onto my site and try to change my opinion, and never with anything but bullshit. It is not happening! I used to believe the same tripe you all believed in until I looked harder and figured this was a man who was a child molester.
Unless you want engage in actual back-and-forth conversation, instead of asking questions without the courtesy of reciprocity, please find another site to troll.
SO YOU DO DELETE MESSAGES ! ! !
Hahahahahahahahaha,
And no you're gonna say from what I'm a member and from what I'm NOT?? How silly are you to think I'm not a member of Mensa just because I don't agree with you, you dumb, unintelligent fool.
This is what you do! You take out everything that could harm your point of view, and leave only that what could support it.
You rediculize that I am a member of mensa, althouth I could proof that to you (give me your e-mail f.e.), but you take my 18y of life experience to proof that I'm not capable of making any valid opinion...
Guys like you could proof their was no shoah...
If you can read (which I doubt because you claim she had just one document that she used in this post), she wanted you to answer the question I asked you.
You have not.
The only unintelligent one is you because you have the gaul to think that your poorly-written, halfway illiterate rants are in any way, shape, or form good enough to not only defend Michael Jackson but to persuade anyone who disbelieves in his innocence to change their opinion.
Do you really think Desiree would care if you wrote your "genius level IQ" blather on her blog? No, because you are not a threat. Your arguments have been heard before, as I've said, becuase we all used to make the same ones when we were fans.
I suggest you grow up. You look like Eurotrash anyway. The flipped hair thing? So not cute.
And as a Mensa member (yeah right), you should be aware the "rediculize" is not a word.
Why go on over the fact that I'm not a member of Mensa, while I could give you proof of that, but you don't want it.
That's just another example of your sort just trashing on about what someone says, without wanting to see the proof! haha..
And the answer to Desiree is simple:
Anyone could describe any guy's penis if they'd seen the pictures of it...
How come jordan has to make 2different descriptions about MJ's private parts? One Before he has seen the pictures, saying he is circumcised and one after seeing the pictures saying he isn't??
God, Marcus. You are so dense!
That is absolutely not answering MY question (lack of reading comprehension much? she only repeated it) as to why a veteran prosecutor would want photographs and descriptions admitted into evidence if they did not match.
But I am not surprised that you have failed so dismally. You do Mensa a diservice for having you on their roster (sure).
If you knew anything about the whole issue, you'd know that Jordie's description, the one the prosecution sought to have admitted, was taken in September. The photographs of his genitals were taken in late December, when Michael Jackson finally decided to stop globetrotting to get away from being questioned by the police.
So how, my lovely little genius, would Jordie have seen the photographs for his sworn description if they were not taken until almost 3 months later?
That's doesn't make sense, now, does it?
Carl Douglas, a lawyer that helped Johnnie Cochran with Michael Jackson's civil suit:
"...in our [Jackson's defence lawyers] perspective, you have to remember that there was a companion criminal investigation case going on by both the District Attorney's office in Los Angeles and Santa Barbara. There had been an occasion where Michael Jackson was examined, and his genitalia was recorded, which was part of an investigation. And that was part of the 300 pound gorilla in the mediation room. We wanted to do all that we could to avoid the possibility that there would be a criminal filing against Michael Jackson, and the reality was we were hopeful that if we were able to "silence" the accuser, that would obviate the need for any concern about the criminal side, so from our perspective there was a great deal of trust, not only with Johnnie and Larry because they had a twenty year prior friendship, there was a tremendous trust with Johnnie and the three judges being recommended. And we were facing the purple gorilla in the room of "If we don't get this case settled before March, there is a criminal investigation looming, and no one wanted to consider the implications of that as it affected Michael Jackson..."
David Corbett, private investigator during the 1993 case:
"We worked for the fourteen-year-old boy and his family in the child molestation case, and we tried the best we could to help the police, but we kept finding out from the sergeant who was out liaison at LAPD that they would assemble a witness list from our reports, pass it up the chain of command, and it would inevitably come back with certain key witnesses cross off. The suspicion was that, with Johnny Cochran at the helm of Jackson's defense, he was pulling strings with old contacts in the DA's office or with cops he knew. We could never prove this, and it was just a suspicion. But it all became moot when Cochran, fearing his investigators has been taped trying to tamper with witnesses - they'd been instructed by Cochran to go out and find ex-employees, tell them,"Michael loves you," and offer them their jobs back at salaries they could hardly refuse - Cochran had a high-power conclave with his client and promptly pitched almost $20 million at the kid and his family. An unwritten part of the agreement was that the boy would not testify before the grand jury. This is illegal, but who was going to prove it happened? Anyhoo, Michael slipped out of that one, as we all know."
Now tell me, is everyone a liar?
Marcus:
Apparently you've been deleting your own comments. A deletion by the author of the comment--that'd be YOU--is not the same as a deletion by a blog administrator--ME.
I hope that computes in your 'Mensa' brain (sure).
And if you want to provide proof to your status in Mensa, I have an Email Me sidelink to the upper right-hand corner of the sidebar. Email away with your 'proof'.
And, no, I don't think you are not a Mensa member just because you disagree with me. I think you are not a Mensa member because you are idiotic, in general. There are people who've emailed me and agreed with what I've said on this blog that I think are less intelligent than some.
No, Marcus, I don't believe you because you come off manifestly moronic.
But by all means, show me your Mensa certificate via email.
And as regards to the picture, your answer is ridiculous; matter of fact, you did not answer at all!
Your answer should have been, "Desiree, you are right. A veteran prosecutor with an amazing track record of wins would never, ever risk his reputation in front to the global media, the judge, and the jury by showing incongruous pictures and descriptions of a defendant's penis. That would be STUPID!"
Yes, that's the correct answer.
You wrote:
How come jordan has to make 2different descriptions about MJ's private parts? One Before he has seen the pictures, saying he is circumcised and one after seeing the pictures saying he isn't??
If you are referring to the description shown in this post, that is not the official description given to police, but to the Chandler attorneys.
You'd know this if you had actually read the post and comprehended it (which is doubtful).
Again, why are you here? You are not going to change my mind for the simple reason you have not an iota of proof as to why I am wrong in my opinions.
Additionally, Jordie saw no pictures of Jacko's penis. What the hell are you even talking about?
After Michael died I searched the internet to find conclusive proof of the truth and was astounded at the illogical and illiterate supports for innocence. I came to the same conclusions as you. This lack of logic, poor syntax and blatant illiteracy led me to suspect that most of the "believers" are children and public school drop-outs, and perhaps women regretting the lost opportunity to pimp their own boys out.
What I ponder now is the silence from all the victims. I think that a lot of women feel that men would react the same way as them when sexually molested and this is a big problem. Any straight male of any age would be mortified to be exposed as a gay prostitute, which is how they would feel. It is shameful to be a "victim" when you are male. It is shameful to have sexual contact with a male especially without expressive resistance. No amount of money would make them mention the subject. On top of this is the love they felt for MJ. These kids did not want to lose what they thought was intense love. Even after therapy to counter the abuse, what man would want to talk about being a VICTIM?
Note the reaction of the boys' fathers when they discovered the truth. I don't think women can fully grasp the damage of pimping out a boy.
Sorry, who writes these nonsenses for you? Tons and tons of assumptions, deliriant and bizarre! Show us proofs please. Do you know what MK ultra programm is? Do you Know Tom Sneddon? Do you know his past and his corrupted proceedings and false proofs? Do you know William Wagener? What do you know about 2005 trial? What do you know about media manipulation and brain washing, and about elite conspiracy? You should scrutinize all the facts before to write a post, this is mediocre, sensationalistic, mystifying. The problem is that you need to believe Michael Jackson was a pedophile, you consider only the nonsenses to corroborate your belief to yourself! Are you payed for this, to instill these lies in others'suggestible mind? Greetings from Italy.
This video is for you.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OBUgE6EDFo
Wow Antu.
You know, the simplest explanations are usually the most correct, so to think that all of Michael Jackson's problems were a conspiracy or the work of MK Ultra CIA projects is beyond the scope of reasonable explanations.
It's very sad and unfortunate that you have invested so much of your energy to defending the behavior of a man you never met just because he made Thriller and could moonwalk.
You and the rest of Jacko's fanatics attempt to defend the actions of a pedophile while simultaneously ridiculing his victims. Your reasoning makes no sense. I think it's time to open your eyes and just be rational. Then you will see that he wasn't as great and angelic as the image he created.
By the way, Will Wagener is an idiot government conspiracy theorist. If he really thinks that he's believable claiming that Jason Francia told him before the trial that Michael Jackson never molested him, and then was able to cry convincingly on the witness stand about being molested, then he is an idiot. Most people cannot cry on cue. He is lying. Why tell everyone that Jason admitted he was never molested, instead of wasting time parroting half-baked conspiracy theories on Youtube to dumb MJ fans?
An innocent man does not settle a few days before being deposed. An innocent man does not flee the country only to come back when a deal is worked out that he would not be arrested. An innocent man does not negotiate with "extortionists" instead of going to the police. Michael Jackson was not an innocent man. Hate to break it to you.
This is an excellent blog. The best I have read to date on this subject. Extremely well researched. I have always thought Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Thank you.
SundaySunshine:
Thank you for your words. I try to make this blog a place where people, who have real questions about Jacko that the fans and vindication blogs cannot answer, can come to for information. If fans have control of his legacy, nothing about his true self--the pedophilia and the homosexuality--would ever get mentioned.
The real Jacko has been a secret for so long. It's time he's exposed.
Desiree, are you the author of this blog? There are some facts that you are omitting about the testimony of Ralph Chacon that you say is proof that Brett Barnes was molested. On May 9th, 1994 Kassim Abdool contacted Detective Russ Birchim of the SBSD and met with him regarding a hypothetic situation. He told them that he knew someone that was an eyewitness and he brought in Chacon. Then they met with Sneddon and Chacon gave them a police statement. He did not testify to the Grand Jury in either county to the allegations that he was making. The Santa Barbara County Grand Jury was disbanded on May 2nd 1994. It was that statement that sent Sneddon and company to Australia in June of 1994 to question Brett after he had given them the information when he was at Neverland during the August search in 1993. He and his parents were there and that is when he said that nothing ever happened between him and Jackson.
In 2005 when Chacon took the stand and testified he testified that it was Jordan that he had seen, not Brett. You can see for yourself if you would just read his testimony. That change took place in the 3 month period before his testimony when he met with Sneddon again. That’s in his testimony too. Of course I know that a lot of people don’t know this but in a 1994 joint statement that was issued by Sneddon and Garcetti you can read the facts for yourself. In it he says that Jordan would not testify even though he told them he would until July 6th and he talks about Jason Francia who wouldn’t testify unless Macauley Culkin did and then about Brett because he is obviously the boy that is out of the jurisdiction that issued a general denial since they went to Australia in June.
Sneddon even said in an interview with Diane Dimond on the night of the 2003 raid of Neverland that they could have brought the case in 1994 if they had adult eyewitness corroboration of the molestation. So what is the logical conclusion there anyway? He also added that to the official press releases from 2003 that if they had corroborating adult eyewitness testimony they could have charged Michael Jackson in 1994. Obviously Sneddon knew that Chacon was going to lie if the story was about Brett, so they changed the lie when he went to court because the prosecution knew that Jordan would not be testifying. Just in case you are a novice to the world of law and crime, prosecutors and police abuse their power every day in the good old USA.
Putting all of that together I would have to say that your fixation with your fantasy of Brett being a victim is just that a fantasy. I would advise you to acquaint yourself with the facts of the case otherwise it looks like you are trying to make fools out of your readers. I don’t know if they would like that. Then of course there is probably the reality of the situation and that is that you know it is fiction and are just having fun at the expense of a dead celebrity and his fans. I’m torn as to what would be fun about it but to each their own I guess. Maybe you are looking for your own reality show, who knows, it seems to be a popular thing to do when you can’t do anything else.
"Candace Beardsley" AKA Lynette:
Did you read this post? If so, you'd see that all of your points have been completely addressed. I've already discussed Ralph Chacon saying it was Jordie Chandler on the stand, even though what he'd described to detectives was a boy who had long, dark, and straight hair and tanned skin, which is obviously Brett.
He also recalled that the event was most likely in 1992, which was when Brett Barnes was the 'Boy of the Year'.
He described Brett Barnes, causing Sneddon and two other law enforcement officials to travel down to Australia in 1994 to question Brett over this alleged fellatio Chacon claimed to have seen.
This has all been sworn to under the penalty of perjury by these parties who accompanied Sneddon to Australia. These parties stated that Lisbeth Barnes reacted tellingly to the allegation Jacko fellated her son.
Again, all of this is unimpeachable and has been completely delineated in the above entry. Do not waste my time.
Ralph Chacon described the boy Michael Jackson performed oral sex upon; he stated that he could not tell the difference between Jordie and Brett, only that one had longer hair. Photographs indicate that Brett had long hair, not Jordie; Lisbeth Barnes testified--as quoted in the above entry--that Brett wore his hair long, exactly as Chacon described it.
The incident in question happened many years ago. It's not a surprise that Chacon mixed the boys up. They questioned him on the stand about Jordie and Brett looking the same.
Again, all of this information is in the above entry.
"Candace":
"Sneddon even said in an interview with Diane Dimond on the night of the 2003 raid of Neverland that they could have brought the case in 1994 if they had adult eyewitness corroboration of the molestation. So what is the logical conclusion there anyway?"
The logical conclusion to reasonable and intelligent people is that Sneddon had simply enumerated the difficulties of bringing a case when it is only a child victim's uncorroborated accusation against an adult, especially a rich and beloved one, that a DA has to base his case.
Now, you are insinuating that Chacon could have 'lied' because Sneddon did not use him as an adult corroborating witness to Brett's molestation. This is faulty. Even if they had Chacon testify to having seen a molestation, without the child victim, the complaining witness--Brett Barnes--claiming abuse, as well, it is just as flimsy a case as it would be if it were a child's uncorroborated accusation.
Does this compute to you? It is a simple concept. Besides, he was talking about Jordie Chandler, not the other boys.
"Obviously Sneddon knew that Chacon was going to lie if the story was about Brett, so they changed the lie when he went to court because the prosecution knew that Jordan would not be testifying."
This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Disregarding your obvious low IQ, you should at least notice that two other parties swore under the penalty of perjury that a trip occurred in 1994 to Australia where these two parties questioned the Barnes parents about talking to Brett because a security guard stated he'd seen Michael Jackson performing oral sex on him.
Again, this occurred in 1994. This should be enough for most reasonable and intelligent people to glean that Chacon--even if he claimed he'd seen Jordie when he was on the stand in 2005--had actually described Brett Barnes.
Most reasonable and intelligent people can excuse Ralph Chacon's confusion, after over a decade, when he'd described the long-haired boy, regardless if he knew his name or not.
Again, he'd described Brett Barnes. This type of testimony is unimpeachable because he simply stated what he'd seen, not who he'd seen, which would be more questionable given he'd admitted he could not tell the boys apart.
All of this was mentioned in the above entry. Read it next time.
And, by the way, I find it incredibly pathetic that you would don a fake screen name and change your ISP to continue to perpetuate your obsession with this blog.
You should be embarrassed, especially given the fact you are an older woman. I feel sorry for you.
"Candace":
"Just in case you are a novice to the world of law and crime, prosecutors and police abuse their power every day in the good old USA."
What I am not is an idiot hellbent on manufacturing and believing half-baked conspiracies. There is no evidence whatsoever of Michael Jackson being the victim of police and prosecutorial misconduct; so, prima facie, there was no misconduct of which he was the victim. You would be well aware of this if you had the intelligence to be objective.
Most people are not victims of the system. Some are but, as per history, they are almost always poor and affected. The rich and powerful--especially celebrities--are often the beneficiaries of kid glove treatment.
Michael Jackson was the victim of his own misconduct which caught up with him.
"I would advise you to acquaint yourself with the facts of the case otherwise it looks like you are trying to make fools out of your readers."
Unlike my readers, you don't like to read the posts. This turns you into a fool when you try to bring up things that have already been addressed by me in my pieces.
Learn to read.
Again, I feel sorry for you that you are so obsessed with myself and my blog that you felt the need to change your ISP to continue to perpetuate the psychosis. Especially at your age.
Here is a link that proves that Chacon changed his testimony in 2005 from Brett to Jordan.
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.org/docs/ctdocs/050405pltmotlimexcl1994.pdf
Now here is a link to his testimony.
http://deargavinarvizo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Ralph-Chacon-Testimony-and-Cross-Examination.txt
The Official Statement of Declination that was released in 1994 can be found at the end of this piece. It clearly says that the third boy is out of the jurisdiction of the court and has issued a general denial. That would be Brett.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051225151006/http://atgbook.net/abcfinal.html
Then Sneddon even says that it would be totally unfair to have just anybody off the street come in and say they saw this happen and they saw that happen.
http://news.findlaw.com/court_tv/s/20031121/21nov2003003553.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20031123162908/http://courttv.com/people/2003/1120/jackson_exclusive_ctv.html
Which is exactly what he did isn't it when he allowed Chacon to change his story to Jordan instead of Brett.Of course seeing the obvious somehow makes us unintelligent? HMMMMMMMM?
As for liking intelligent debate with an opposing viewpoint that would seem to be a little less than truthful isn't it>
"Candace" aka Lynette:
Read my reply to you, as well as this blog entry. All of the shit you're bringing up has been addressed. The first document link you've provided is already in this post.
Again, the take home point is the fact Chacon described a boy with "long, straight, and dark hair with tanned skin" who'd been in the showers with Jacko, and Jacko performed oral sex on him.
You are grasping at straws trying your hardest to invalidate this.
Chacon acknowledged that he couldn't tell the boys apart but he'd described the boy. Hell, he may have even called Brett 'Jordie' back in the day; this seems to be the indication in the 2004 "Prior Bad Acts" motion. However, this does nothing to invalidate that the boy he'd described fit BRETT BARNES' description, so much so three DAs traveled from California to Australia to question the boy Chacon described. The result of the interview with his parents was Lisbeth Barnes acting in a peculiar way when told that her son was allegedly abused; Mr. Barnes, according to these declarations made under the penalty of perjury, reacted angrily to his wife.
In addition, they refused to allow Brett to be questioned after having heard this allegation.
All of the above is very telling, seeing he was allowed to be questioned somewhat during the August 1993 raid, when--not surprisingly--he was on the property.
"Which is exactly what he did isn't it when he allowed Chacon to change his story to Jordan instead of Brett."
Again, Chacon perhaps always called the boy "Jordie Chandler" but he'd described Brett Barnes, which is the point. By that description (long, dark, and straight hair with tanned skin), three DAs travelled to Australia in an attempt to question Brett as a part of the investigation.
Chacon's description is of importance, not the name of the boy. Even if Chacon called the boy Jordie back in the day--and I'm sure he did--police knew that the boy was Brett, so much so they knew to travel to Australia for an interview with the child. This, of course, was disallowed once his parents knew of the allegation that their son was orally copulated.
"Of course seeing the obvious somehow makes us unintelligent?"
You're unintelligent because you don't see the obvious, which is that Chacon described Brett Barnes, not Jordie Chandler. Also, Chacon and police acknowledged that Chacon thought the boy was named "Jordie"; this was mentioned in the "Prior Bad Acts" motion made in 2004. This is an indication that Chacon always believed the boy to be Jordie Chandler but still described Brett Barnes. June Chandler even mentioned the two boys held a resemblance to one another. Most significantly, this description provided by Chacon caused three DAs to travel to Australia to interview the boy who fit the description, which was Brett, not Jordie.
I feel like I'm repeating myself here.
"As for liking intelligent debate with an opposing viewpoint that would seem to be a little less than truthful isn't it"
What, did you not like my replies to you, or, as expected, you didn't read them, only ever barking your shit? You had nothing in rebuttal to say and are actually violating Commenting Rules #1 and #4.
Read the entry; read my posts to you as "Candace". That seems like sufficient debate in my opinion.
As I've stated previously, I feel sorry for you, given your advanced age, that you felt the need to change your screen name and, especially, your ISP, in order to continue your obsession with myself and my blog. That is fucking pathetic.
He did not in fact identify the boy with long straight hair he identified the boy by name. That is why Sneddon went to Australia along with the others in 1994. What part of that don't you get?He then changed it just weeks in advance of his testimony from Brett to Jordan. Now how do we know that? We know that because it is in his testimony.You don't have facts just a poison pen and that gets you nowhere.
Lynette as "Candace":
"He did not in fact identify the boy with long straight hair he identified the boy by name."
Good God, you are obviously totally confused, which is not a surprise.
Chacon described a boy that was Brett Barnes but, apparently, he believed him to be Jordie Chandler and referred to him as such.
Again, this is in court-sworn documents that were written in December 2004, which is in no way 'weeks before' Chacon's April 7, 2005 testimony. This means that Sneddon was drawing on previous testimony or interviews with Chacon, most likely the ones that were the impetus for the Australian trip.
To reiterate: in these court documents--the "Prior Bad Acts" motion--the DAs pointed out that Chacon believed the boy to be "Jordie", even though the boy Chacon described was evidently Brett Barnes. We know this and the DAs knew this because Brett Barnes was a tanned boy with long, dark, and straight hair. There is a picture showing this to be true in the above blog entry; I even delineate with a labeled arrow.
In Chacon's testimony, he stated the boy was Jordie. He also testifies that he told the Grand Jury that the boy he'd seen was Jordie Chandler.
This is not an issue. It is evident that the description given was of Brett, not Jordie, even though Chacon was adamant in his testimony that the boy Jacko gave a blowjob to was Jordie. And it was this description that caused the DAs to travel to Australia to try to obtain an interview with Brett Barnes.
You seem desperately befuddled by this very simple issue. Here's a list of the facts:
- Chacon saw Brett Barnes and describes him;
- Chacon says in 1994 and in 2005 that it was Jordie Chandler he'd seen (sticking to his story in spite of its divergence between actual boy and alleged boy);
- Chacon admits that the boys looked similar and he often got them confused (June Chandler corroborates the similarity between the two boys' appearances);
- DAs travel to Australia in 1994 looking to talk to Brett because of Chacon's eyewitness account;
- In a 2004 motion, compiled and officiated 4 months before Chacon's testimony in the new case, DAs mention Chacon's account of this blowjob given, providing the description Chacon had given them, which was a tanned boy with long, dark, and straight hair;
- ADDITIONALLY, in this 2004 motion, they point out that Chacon believed the boy to be Jordie, that he also confused the two, and that there was a possibility that the boy Chacon actually saw--by virtue of the description given--was Brett Barnes.
How is this difficult for you to compute?
Lynette as "Candace":
"He then changed it just weeks in advance of his testimony from Brett to Jordan. Now how do we know that? We know that because it is in his testimony."
There is nothing in Chacon's testimony that shows anything nefarious with regard to the account given about Brett Barnes being fellated by Michael Joseph Jackson. Although this seems totally immaterial to you, you have zero proof of any collusion between any party to manufacture an eyewitness account of molestation.
Again, prima facie, there was no collusion.
Like a broken record, your brain seems to be stuck on this idea that since Chacon described Brett in 1994 but says, "Jordie," in 2005 means he was somehow lying about what he'd seen. But you're forgetting one of the most important points, which is that it had been pointed out in documents and in court that Chacon often confused the two boys.
Therefore, rational and intelligent people--stock to which you do not belong--will note that since Chacon's account caused three DAs to travel to Australia, the actual boy being fellated by Michael Jackson was BRETT BARNES, even though Chacon said it was Jordie Chandler.
Or, simply, Chacon was confused!
What you're doing is typical fan spin. You're attempting to point out inconsequential things in order to build a reasonable doubt case in favor of Jacko's innocence. Note: this is in no way defending Jacko's behavior or proving him to be innocent.
You are also failing to take into account that the two DAs that joined Sneddon on his Australian trip declared under the penalty of perjury that Lisbeth Barnes behaved in an odd way when told of the allegation. These DAs also declared that as a result of the talk with the Barnes parents, the mother appeared reluctant to provide to them Brett Barnes for questioning.
That is of utmost importance!
Furthermore, the point of that document relating the Australian trip was that Lisbeth Barnes--the same mother who put her head down and was deathly silent when told of the allegation Brett had been sexually abused--planned to fabricate a story that Sneddon had recently put together a tale that Brett Barnes had been blown by Jacko, which was completely false. This behavior on the part of Mrs. Barnes, coupled with her previous behavior as outlined in that aforementioned motion, shows a guilty mindset.
Two DAs declared under penalty of perjury that what Mrs. Barnes planned to say was completely fraudulent.
Like I've said numerous times before, you are missing the forest for the trees. Not only that, you have zero evidence to support the pathetic and half-baked conspiracy theories to which you cling. To you, every thing and everyone showing Michael Jackson in a negative light (or, as he was) is tabloid or greedy, respectively.
This is the type of thought of which you are capable. Never once does it pass through your brain to think holistically, to uphold the truism of the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts. Never do you think that it is prudent to be objective and rational. Every thing you've shat out onto my blog proves your inalienable confirmation bias.
Perhaps it's time to bring up the obvious: you are an idiot.
(cont'd)
Michael Jackson was a pedophile and a prolific one at that; in due time, this will be proven in the media. He has molested many boys, not just the ones known by the media. This includes Brett Christopher Barnes.
Brett Barnes was molested; a couple on the train verified Jacko's inappropriate and sexual behavior with the boy he'd called cousin, and Ralph Chacon witnessed him receiving a blowjob by Michael Jackson.
These are facts that you cannot directly dispute, which is the source of your agitation. You are free to concoct spin (do it somewhere else, please) but denial of reality does not change it.
Bottomline: so what if Chacon has always said the boy was Jordie? He'd described Brett and the DAs knew it was Brett, so much so they flew to Australia as a result of Chacon's account. Don't forget the curious reactions of the boy's parents, and Lisbeth Barnes' willingness to fabricate a story about Sneddon, which was disproved by two parties in attendance of that 1994 Australian interview.
"You don't have facts just a poison pen and that gets you nowhere."
Well, it seems that I've upset you to the point you had to change your ISP in order to further your obsession with this blog. This is not mentioning the fact that nothing on this blog has ever been successfully refuted by anyone. It hasn't happened.
You have absolutely nothing. I feel sorry for you that you feel the need to defend a pedophile just because he could sing and moonwalk. What a pathetic state the human race is in.
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